The six elements of Apostlic Genius
In the previous post on The Forgotten Ways, I described how my journey to writing the book starting with me repeatedly asking myself the question, ‘how did they do it? How did the Early Christian Movement (and in our day, the Underground Chinese Church) achieve ‘spontaneous expansion?’ How did they grow exponentially, against all odds, and without any of the resources we ordinarily require to achieve any form of church growth? Time to suggest my own attempt to answer that question.
In the book (which took four years to distill) I have tried to discern quintessential elements that combine to create what I call Apostolic Genius (the life force that pulses through apostolic movements) and to simplify them to the absolutely irreducible components. There are six simple but interrelating elements of mDNA, forming a complex and living structure. These present us with a powerful paradigm grid with which we will be able to assess our current understandings and experiences of church and mission. They are:
- Jesus Is Lord: At the center and circumference of every significant Jesus movement there exists a very simple confession. Simple, but one that fully vibrates with the primal energies of the scriptural faith, namely, that of the claim of the One God over every aspect of every life, and the response of his people to that claim (Deut. 6:4
–6ff.). The way that this was expressed in the New Testament and later movements was simply “Jesus Is Lord!” With this simple confession they changed the world. - Missional-Incarnational Impulse: This element describes the twin impulses of remarkable missional movements, namely the dynamic outward thrust and the related deepening impulse which together seed and embed the gospel into different cultures and people groups.
- Apostolic Environment: This element will relate to the type of ministry (and by extension the type of leadership) required to both initiate and sustain metabolic growth and impact. Apostolic creates fertile environment required initiating and maintaining the phenomenal movements of God. We simply cannot get exponential movements without it.
- Disciple-Making: Essentially this involves the irreplaceable, and lifelong, task of becoming like Jesus by embodying his message. This is perhaps where many of our efforts fail. Disciple-making is an irreplaceable core task of the church and needs to be structured into every church’s basic formula.
- Organic Systems: This will explore the appropriate structures for metabolic growth. Phenomenal Jesus movements grow precisely because they do not have centralized institutions to block growth through control. Here we will find that remarkable Jesus movements have (1) the feel of a movement, (2) structure as a network, and (3) spread like viruses.
- Communitas not Community: The most vigorous forms of community are those that come together in the context of a shared ordeal or, communities who define themselves as a group with a mission that lies beyond themselves—thus initiating a risky journey. Over-concern with safety and security, combined with comfort and convenience, have lulled us out of our true calling and purpose. Everyone loves an adventure. Or do we? The chapter on communitas aims at putting the adventure back into the venture.
And so the structure of Apostolic Genius will look something like this….
It needs to be said at this stage and remembered throughout, that this must be seen as a system, a complex resulting from the inter-relationship of all of the six elements in the equation. I suggest that if you take even one of them out, one cannot achieve ‘spontaneous expansion’ (Rolland Allen) or exponential growth.
Anyhow, I don’t want to make it too complex. For many reading this, each of these elements might well present a different paradigm to the ones we currently hold, and so it might be a big ask to see what I am describing. However, I do warn you, once you do see it, you will find it difficult un-see it. It will change the way you look at church and mission. So watch out!
So, enough from me, back to you….
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Playing devil’s advocate here Alan. Where do you see prayer, Spirituality and the Spirit fitting into all of this?
Some church growth advocates emphasize prayer, almost to the exclusion of everything else. You haven’t specifically mentioned it at all in your key points. So, how would you respond to objectors? Where does prayer fit into these points?
(PS. Not that I object to any of your points, I agree with them all, I’m just wanting you to flesh this out)
If I was to analyze the typical church I would say that they would have the center (I don’t know any church that would claim that Jesus isn’t the center). Discipleship is another thing that they would say they have. Through sermons bible studies, adult Sunday School (S.S. for the children)and so on.
Now the rest I see as missing (or they have some of them in very small measure)in the typical church.
To be honest charts to me are overwhelming in comparison to seeing it being worked out. How have you come to this conclusion. Is it by studying the movements and then jotting down these points?
If i were to read the New testament after Acts i would not come to these conclusions but I see them lived out in the life of Jesus and his discilpes……..
Jesus is Lord at the center. This sounds right. I think that modern Christianity is fundamentally dualistic: we accept Jesus as Lord of the afterlife, but he is only taken semi-seriously as Lord of all of our life. And I say this as one who is certainly guilty of that charge.
I still need to read Rolland Allen’s work so one question I have is how does he define or describe what “spontaneous expansion” exactly is? Is it a descriptive term he uses in a broad fashion or does he put forth out a set of criteria to determine what is and what isn’t “spontaneous expansion?” Is it a type of “exponential growth?”
Frank, as we shall see, it is one thing to claim that Jesus is the center of the church, and another to live by that confession. Test this: what if the radical Jesus (as the Gospels describe him) was to appear at the local church? What would the local bellievers do with that? how would they react? This much I do know from years of denominational work and consultancy: religious people generally don’t like him. Paradoxially, the irreligious did, and apprarently still do.
And as for discipleship. I recognize we do have the language of it, but analyzed in Biblical terms, we do not have the practice of it. The reality is lacking. Most ‘discipleship programs’ limit discipleship to the first few weeks of faith and also to an intellectual grasp of the docttrine of faith rather than the embdiment of them.
In general terms, I ask you all to be patient as we begin the journey of discovery. I hope to cover all the neccesary material over a whole year! One thing I promise is that it won’t be boring, but I want us to really engage the ideas and work them into lived relaities.
And Matt, in relation to prayer and spirituality: Because I have taken what is acalled ‘a phenomenological approach’ (i.e.to view these movements as a total phenomenon rather than in simple isolated terms) I have included prayer and spirituality at the very center–in our relation to God in and through Jesus. It is implied in that, and in the mDNA of discipleship. But other than that, it is too easy just to say that they prayed and God showed up. There are sadly way too many occasions when people prayed, God blessed them, but they disaapeared from history. It is not enough to explain the entire phenomenon. does that make sense?
Necessary but not sufficient?
Alan, thanks for your input at the Intensive, I’m feeling enthused and energized … been checking different sites etc out, and thought you might want to know that Koorong have “The Forgotten Ways” listed as costing $46:95 - when it arrives, compared with $19:95 at Word Books.
I have warned them about that already. they had promised to change it. It is Aus$19.95. theya re wrong. I got home to the great news that it is on its way to the bookshops as we speak,
Thanks for participation at the intensive Ruth. I myself love our times there.
And of course Janet. I like the phrase you suggest a lot. Prayer itself is ‘neccesary but not sufficient.’ Life is always so complex isn’t it?
I think it’s a phrase gleaned from a biology text book, but I’m afraid I can’t name the source off the top of my head.
Prayer seems to me a natural outcome of “Jesus is Lord” and discipleship… if we actually believed “apart from Me you can do nothing” we would probably do less and listen more in attentive prayer.
Actually, “do less” could be misunderstood in the Western church which pontificates much and acts little… I suppose I mean if we really pattern our lives on Jesus we’d demonstrate a better rhythm of prayer and action.
Yeah Jan. I do sometimes hear the ‘more prayer and less action’ thing as a real put down to mission. Follwoing the Hebraic perspectives on spirituality, for me action is my sacramanet–because in action we both meet with God and He meets with us. It is a means of grace.
yo alan…
good work… i have done some thinking in a similar vein, but i really need to engage with your book before doing justice to the discussion. nonetheless there are a few things that come to mind…
firstly i consider “apostolic genius” an unfortunate term - though i don’t immediately have an alternative to propose! my concern is simply based on the abusive nature of the use of “apostolic” in some circles… preconceptions attached to the terminology may mean that your work does not receive a fair reading! small point!
i shared a concept a little like yours - similar but different! - with the new congregations worker of the nsw synod of the uniting church a couple of years ago. my thinking is that every human being - whether they call themselves christian or not - is somewhere on a journey towards the centre. everyone perceives from their different compass points and so encounters christ from different vantage points… each still has the choice to move closer or remove themselves further…
at the centre is christ - not the church - and in a sense there are concentric circles moving out from the centre… the lines are blurred not concrete… we try to define who is “in” and who is “out” but the lines are not clear and from christ’s perspective at the center, everyone is in his line of sight.
my thoughts have been that the “organic” is not a node in itself, but the living nature of the whole model… so the model “breathes”; it is organic and alive… prayer and spirituality are in the breathing… we need to breathe to stay alive… so the model must always remain fluid, always breathing… when it settles into a religious pattern it stops breathing and it is already DEAD - even if it takes centuries to bury the body! but breathing is not enough… we also need to work to eat to stay alive
in your schematic then, as his-story breathes, at different times different nodes would be promoted further out and others would contract - referencing the fact that at different points in history “Disciple Making” or “Missional-Incarnational Impulse” or “Apostolic Environment” has led the way, even though it is possible as you suggest that ALL aspects are necessary - i’ll be more able to comment on your distillation once i’ve digested the book
as for the prayer and action discussion… it seems to me that “pistis” contains within it the implicit nature of an active response to an encounter with faith… to separate faith from action is a logical fallacy… biblically faith has to be walked around… faith brings the reality of heaven to earth… and if you’re not breathing you’re dead!
beannachd dia dhuit
a celtic son
I agree with your assesment on both issues; ie Jesus is Lord and discipleship. On my way home from a family gathering yesterday, I was thinking how there is a huge difference between “Jesus is Lord” as an abstract thought (a rubber stamp) and living that confession out. The first keeps us safe, warm and secure while the second gets us down in the trenches with him.
Oh my, the idea of Jesus visiting our churches today….. I cannot imagine that he would have any time for them…. if we believe that Jesus was in fact missional. This is a whole discussion by itself.
I looked up the word exponential…. what does that mean as it relates to what we are talking about.
Hi Alan! Tomorrow I am going to teach at the seminary I studied at about missional church and related issues.
Just wanted to drop you a note, telling you that the things you have been cooking up at Forge and in the books are really helping and pushing further. I wish I had “The Forgotten Ways” in my hands already. Sometimes I don’t get all these discussions about stuff, but Blogs seem to be a place for Feedback, be it helpful or confusing. Just wanted to say “Thank you” for the effort, I learned a lot, personally in Swiss in May and from the books, articles and your blog…
Greetings from germany
Bjoern
On the “discipleship” point by Frank.I agree strongly with Alan on this. If there is anything the modern church has failed at, it is discipleship. Dallas Willard calls the failure to make disciples “the elephant in the room of the church.” I don’t believe most Pastors, much less most Christians even know how to make one. Roxburgh has said, “Ours is a generation that believes if it has been studied it has been done.” Discipleship is not information transference. It is mentoring and apprenticeship… walking along side someone and learning the praxis of it. You don’t pull that off in classrooms. To the churches demise we have believed that we could.
hi al,
just wanted your quick thoughts on what your experience has been of how many people is a likely minimum who would be required to fulfil the 6 core elements that form the apostolic genius paradigm. i’m aware of giftings etc, and i have a vague recollection that years ago we might have discussed it in light of the list in ephesians 4. but what’s your experience been of the initial group that’s able to actually function?
Janet, Alan -
I would suggest the West or more specifically USAmerica Church does a whole lot of stuff which includes a lot of pontification - but many of our many actions are set on wrong goals - we aim to succeed (unaware or defiently) in the wrong areas. I think employing or tapping the Apostolic Genius is a worthy goal!
I continue to pontificate on this one, reflecting on the following passages:
(John 5:19
) Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does I only do what I see my Father doing”
and Mark 1
33 The whole town gathered at the door, 34 and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.
35 Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed. 36 Simon and his companions went to look for him, 37 and when they found him, they exclaimed: “Everyone is looking for you!”
38 Jesus replied, “Let us go somewhere else—to the nearby villages—so I can preach there also. That is why I have come.”
and John 15
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”
It seems to me there are twin dangers: one is activism devoid of spirituality, that does not act in the power of the Holy Spirit, that does not listen to the Spirit intently to walk in the will of God (”don’t stay here… preach in other towns in Galilee”) that almost disregards the command to pray, that almost starts to think “apart from me you can do a heck of a lot of good things”.
The other danger is prayerful piety that goes nowhere, that is not listening prayer worked out in obedience.
Still… I do wonder whether there is a bit of a vocation / calling issue here too… some people are more wired for action, some people are more contemplative. I have an intercessor who is up every morning at 4.00 am to pray, and devotes hours to this before she starts her day proper (which of course, does involve action) There are entire orders of nuns whose main task is prayer. (I think it’s the Carmelites… Catholics help me!)
I think sometimes those who claim: “we need more prayer and less action” aren’t really doing a lot of either. I find it hard to be judgmental of nuns who pray for hours every day… this strikes me as hard work, and something that supports the ministries of those who are more called to action.
Alan…..surely the major blockage to initiating the model you are proposing is the current systems that by their very structure work against it. Those in these structures like to talk about the changes needed and even tinker with the edges so that they bring in just enough of what you propose to look like they are changing without foundationally affecting the status quo. They then engage in the dialogue and even take over and hijack it which in the end just preserves the status quo….and their place in it. I wonder if the real leaders of the movement you propose are those that are ignored or rejected by the current. Scary stuff but exactly the place the Apostles will be found!
DAz, so true. the problem is that our ’systems story’ (our paradigm or template of church) so works against the movement paradigm. It takes a disciplined, action-based, approach to re-program ourselves in the way of movements. We must delve deep to get at the answers we need.
And Tony: what is very interesting, and what we learn from the Chinese church on this score (how many does it take) is that it doesn’t take a lot. Most of the Chinese churches are around 15-20 people because it gets very tricky if they get much larger. and when they reach this point/critical mass of 15 they have to start another church. What is important is a precommitment to multiplication movements. One of the Chinese movements has a slogan I think is very instructive…”Every believer a church planter. Every Church a church-planting church.’ Taken phenomenologically, this means that every Christian can do it. They have all that is needed to get the whole job done!! Even the youngest Christian carries this inside of them. Remarkable eh?
I have to agree 100% with angryandshallow here. I am sure you could give a few exceptions to that rule but that is what they are “exceptions.” Usually they are empowered by a strong leader who everyone is willing to follow. (for better or worse). But the vast majority are happy with church the way it is. Institutional and static. Simply one of those points is too great a shift to make (let alone the six).
As for prayer. I don’t think we should pit prayer and action against each other. I would be absolutely thrilled if we were part of a 12 to 15 person missional church and 4 of those people spent hours in prayer for us. It would make a difference.
Didn’t mean to diminish the power of prayer as well as the absolute need for it. Just that so many excuses for our inaction lie in the quietist approach to life. God will meet us in our actions. We will have to pray in order to do His will and to survive. Etc.
thanks al,
i have no problem with ’small’ in number, but what i am thinking about is how to start something with an ideal base of people who reflect the apostolic genius structure.
have been looking back over ’shaping…’ and chapt 10, on the genius of APEPT. so, i think what i’m asking you is around finding where APEPT meets with apostolic genius model, and then trying to discover who amongst those who want to be part of the ‘new thing’ best reflect the giftings required to fulfil the strategic need.
ideally, i would like to intentionally experiment with your model, and strategically avoid flailing in the dark with ‘nice folks who just want to help’ but whose giftings and primary commitments aren’t compatible with the task.
so another part of the question then, is, ‘how do you help people discover their giftings using the APEPT grid? i recall in ’shaping…’ that you referred to a church in sheffield that had done some work in this area. can you please supply their details?
and then there’s the question of how to relate APEPT to apostolic genius? perhaps you’ll lead us there in due course….
i’m not just after new techniques here, but want to strategically approach the planting of a new missional community of faith using your model and tapping into the practical experiences of others who have done something similar.
any thoughts?
and on the discussion around contemplative and practical spirituality: may i suggest a good book to use as the basis of a retreat (i’ve done this myself) is, ‘contemplatives in action’, by william a. barry, s.j., and robert g. doherty, s.j. publisher is paulist press, new jersey, 2003. isbn 0-8091-4112-4. the church catholic has a rich history in contemplative activists that is waiting to be rediscovered in this new millenium.
Tony Cant. It’s great to be in contact again. After all these long years. Look at you as a full-blown priest. You sexy thing!!
On the book contemplatives in action. I know it. It is great. The best stuff from the CAtholics on this area is from the Fransciscan Richard Rohr. Do you know him? Wonderful stuff.
Re the application of the apostlic genius model. I hear ya…and I would love for you to try it out. You are in a good position to do so. But it will be best that we engage a whole lot more (and deeper) than a blog can provide. Would you consider doing the 6 month online cafe thing we are running (see ‘training’ above. That would be the appropriate forum for a long term integration of the thinking. We expect some really talented people in the cohorts. Let me know what you think. I think you have my email.
Oh, and I forgot to say that Tony’s question rasies an issue that might be of interest to others. One of the really promising applications that I envisage for this material is that the Apostolic Genius model can be used as a strategic grid with which we can assess what I call ‘the missional fitness’ of any group, congregation, or agency. Each of these becomes a focus forstrategic development. The idea being to try develop each element and then to bring the disparate elements into interplay thus approximating that catalystic moment when’apostlic genius’kicks in. Remember, its there already, all we need to do is awaken it!
To this end, I am working with social researchers to try and develop an online instrument to help test this. This is what is meant by ‘missional fitness test’ above.
al! you mustn’t say such things about me being sexy and all. a man in my position - people will talk!! (s…w the people……)
anyhoo, have sent you an email about the course that will explain my position.
richard rohr is fantastic - have seen him at greenbelt a coupla times. and he’s quite a prolific writer - check the bookstores.
the missional fitness stuff is exactly where i want to go with the integration of the right people connecting with the apostolic genius grid. looking forward to you introducing that stuff in future.
Hi Alan
Neil here from God’s Squad. How are you?
Appreciate your prompting and stirring.
I am now pastoring a small Baptist church in the western suburbs of Sydney. A bit of a God thing because it wasn’t where I was expecting to be.
Anyway, my struggle is how I encourage a very friendly, caring and great group of people to move out of their comfortable busyness and become missional.
As a church we have very few resources (no church property, etc) and to a great extent we really only exist for ourselves for the few hours we spend together in a non-descript school hall on a Sunday. And there seems little desire for change.
I guess I am finding that the talking and theorising has been the easy part.
onya
Neil
I think Neil brings up a couple of good points here. It is something that I threw my hands up after reading this post. Forgive me for showing my consumeristic side….. but who in the world are we going to sell this to. You talk about digging deeper… but really who wants to dig deeper about what church is all about? I haven’t met too many people. The three points that Neil make are
BUSYNESS, LITTLE DESIRE FOR CHANGE AND TALKING AND THEORISING HAS BEEN THE EASY PART.
This is the reality that most of us face whether we are part of a small church, big church or alone.
If what you are suggesting is that we try to bring this concept back to our churches……… I don’t know…… I just don’t know.
Hey Neil… established churches are actually really difficult because so much is invested in the existing organisation.
In Churches of Christ Vic/Tas they’ve developed a process for engaging in reflection in order to develop a “missional experiment”. The rationale for this is that the majority of people in a church will take some persuading to accept change, but a few people will be naturally more open and innovative. The consulation process develops “permission” to support those engaged in the missional experiment. The idea is that stories from the missional experiment(s) will produce whole culture change in the church over time to become mission focused not internally focused.
One example is a group of people from one church who play bingo in order to build relationships with the bingo crowd.
I think those who are in conventional church ministry need to be able to operate in “both worlds” in this time of transition.
Al did a much more radical reboot of South Melb church (and he is a more radical personality than I!) so he’ll probably have a more interesting answer!
hi neil and frank…
as i read across the posts on the various subjects al has raised, there are a variety of responses - some positive, some negative. some people clearly feel that the exisiting church structures have a stranglehold, while others see possibilities there and others see answers outside of the box… the truth is that we determine the way in our own hearts first.
there is a price to pay to adopt a concept that won’t have the support of existing structures, whatever route you choose to go. the alternative is to do nothing, theorise, theologise and watch the church die…
to my way of thinking, if you believe there is truth in what al is teaching (or in other elements of emerging church) there are three options.
1. agree in your MIND with al’s hypothesis (or whatever teaching it is) but recognise the difficulty, believe that the existing structures won’t change and do nothing… well maybe pray for change
2. agree in your HEART with al’s hypothesis (or whatever teaching it is) and try to change an existing church, which is incredibly challenging, but it is not impossible
3. agree in your HEART with al’s hypothesis (or whatever teaching it is) and try something completely different, which is incredibly challenging, but is not impossible
there is NO easy answer it will take a sense of mission, energy, effort, a commitment to a vision that aims to see generational change - rather than just a three year plan, the capacity to cope with failure and get up again. if you are going to lead people you need to know that there will consistently be critics, who snipe from the sidelines, and you will need to be bigger than that…
Jesus’ method was clearly based on an understanding that it only takes a handful of people, who authentically join their hearts in a mission, to the point where they will sacrifice all for the cause, to change the world.
whether you choose option 2 or option 3 you need to KNOW in your heart - in an authentic way that directs your whole life - that you are on a mission from God and you only need a handful of people in unity with you.
if you don’t have that small group initially, then you need to learn what they look like potentially. the “Churches of Christ Vic/Tas process for engaging in reflection in order to develop a “missional experiment” that Janet identifies sounds like a great starting point. If you’re not part of that movement call them and ask them for it… i’d be surprised if they wouldn’t give it to you - if they won’t then i’d ask al hirsch about that kind of material to help you.
Seek people and pray and trust God - seek God and pray and trust people. also be prepared to have a go with some people who might not appear to be “right” and be prepared to start again with new people when things change. work with a small group until they catch the mission from you - mission is predominantly caught not taught… it is the Jesus method of discipleship, rather than the classroom method (which is a major problem of our traditional sunday church - but that’s another issue!)
to people trying to change an existing church, doing a new thing often looks romantic and sexy… the reality is that it is no less hard work and often lacks necessary resource to support the mission. while trying to change an existing church is challenging, nonetheless it often has resources in finance and property that a radical new thing does not. whichever route you are on there are challenges and hard work… but i recollect reading somewhere that “all things are possible.”
if you are missional in an existing traditional structure, it is possible to find energy, to support some traditional elements that are not missional, from the things you get to do that are missional.
there is a need for wisdom in how you introduce concepts like al’s “apostolic genius” to an existing congregation - or to new people. many of us have had lots of discussion on missional things and thinking before coming to this blog. it takes care and it takes times to process your thinking into concepts and language that will be understandable and relevant to your particular group.
i suspect - having yet to read this book - that in a sense what al is suggesting is like a skeleton, and the responsibility for each of us locally is to put skin on. the finished model will look different externally, but function built on the same type of skeleton. most people are not interested in the skeleton, nor do they necessarily have to discuss the skeleton or know the medical terms for each bone or organ… a few people do have interest in those kinds of details and they’ll help to keep it on track (generally they are the apostolic, prophectic, visionary types who are core members of the team)
translating thought into action is THE hard work of life and mission… we can talk, theorise and think till the cows come home… but who’s actually going to do the milking and clean up the dung afterwards?
beannachd dia dhuit
a celtic son
Hi again Neil.
After reading Celtic Son’s suggestion I thought I’d better check in at work (Churches of Christ Vic/Tas) whether it’s OK to talk about the process that has been developed over the past 3 years to assist established churches in “remissionalisation” and had the reply: “Sure, we’ll talk to anyone!”
So you can try Paul Cameron on 03 9488 8800 or pcameron@churchesofchrist.org.au if you’d like to have a chat about this.
Or I can blog a bit more about it if you’d rather, but it hasn’t been my main focus.
it’s always refreshing when your faith in others proves fruitful… truthfully i have found that it’s the nature of missional people to share their ideas and resources much more freely than more traditional churches! well done Churches of Christ Vic/Tas… luvyerwurk
a celtic son
Actually, Paul’s about to go on holidays, so you might want to hold back for a bit (don’t want to ruin that glowing reputation by a slow response!)
C of C’s have been around for over 150 years in Victoria so it has plenty of churches that look like stuck institutions… that’s why there has been considerable resource invested in a process that seeks to “remissionalise” established churches. It’s obviously easier to start up something brand new with a group of mates than it is to turn around an existing organisation… but there is a huge potential “workforce” of Christians in established churches who might be given a vision of giving themselves away… of establishing missional groups that may not directly join the parent body but may develop a life and a multiplication potential of their own… it’s something well worth a go for those who are called to work with existing churches in my opinion. It’s about planting a new vision. Ironically of course, the best hope of giving new life to the centre can be missional experiments on the fringes… and even if the centre eventually dies, it’s ministry “offspring” may live on.
Thanks for your responses. My intention was not to be negative about this. I look forward to reading the rest of Al’s book when it comes out.
Hey Neil…
look I want to start with a bit of an apology… it’s really not my intention to crap on people who are sincerely seeking to find answers… I’m just a tough little git!!
It’s pretty clear that I am hard on people who ask questions without overtly attempting a solution… if it’s any consolation I am equally hard on myself… I truly believe that the church of Jesus Christ, when it expresses itself authentically as He intended it, has and IS the answer to ALL of humanity’s problems…
What saddens, and challenges, me is that we are a pale reflection of what He intended and so I push myself hard, consequently I push others like you -who are people who are already in the game. If you read all of my posts on all of the threads on Al’s blog you’ll see that I consistently prod and provoke… I’m constantly looking for a fight… that is part of my nature AND I truly believe that the cause of Christ is something worth fighting for - even losing reputation and friends over.
I don’t say that lightly - Christian friends have walked away from me over my beliefs and how I express them… I’ve been accused of being not nearly so harsh and much more forgiving of my friends who are not followers of Christ! It is not right and it is not fair… but the criticism is true… that is how I am… I have extended much more grace to my homosexual friends than I have to my religious friends… clearly I find religion much less palatable than sin!
There are others sitting on the sidelines criticising, more deserving of a hard time than people like you, who are involved in serving Christ. I am not fair… it’s true, there are others more deserving of criticism. The reality is that the world we live in is not fair… it really sucks.
I have learned that I have very little influence on people not involved in the game… and even less influence with religious leaders that think I’m full of shit… and they may be right! BUT if I can cause people who love Jesus and who are already involved, to reconsider their priorities and take one step in a missional direction - whether they love me or hate me afterwards - I’ve achieved a step in the right direction…
If I truly believe that we have the answer, then I also have to believe that our stuffing around, fighting denominational preferences and personal attitudes, actually means we don’t spend that time speaking life to people who are dying… and it really distresses me… I get really pissed off with Christians - and with myself when I catch myself doing it - who are more focussed on their own preferences than on the reality that people die eternally without revelation of the truth that we claim to already have!
I want to have a go and I’ll support others having a go… boots and all… even in their greatest failures… I am so grateful that Christ rescued me from myself, that I want to see every believer have a go at expressing their love for Christ in practical ways that are consistenmt with who they really are…
I truly believe that if we can enlighten people to the true meaning of life in Christ, we can set peiople free, to be themselves in Christ, and to change the world by changing themselves to be who they were always meant to be!! The time for deconstruction has come… and gone. It is time to build…
Blessya,
a celtic son
wow celtic son. that was certainly an outpouring of personal reflection. I love your energy. I’d be pleased to meet you some time.
Neil
Hi Neil…
I write like I think and I wear my heart on my sleeve… what you see is what you get - the good, the bad and the ugly. I also love the opportunity to meet fellow sojourners… and yak about God’s story. I’m in Sydney’s south eastern burbs and would be happy to catch up with you somewhere in the new year.
If you’re a God Squad member do you have a bike at present? I’m a long-term two wheeler, riding a ‘91 evo Sporty I’ve had for 10 years. I’d be happy to head west sometime late Jan and maybe take a scoot up the Blue Mountains and have lunch somewhere… or something…
beannachd dia dhuit
a celtic son
Hi celtic son. You can reach me through the God’s Squad web site - http://gscmc.com
Neil
Hey Al… what’s your answer to Neil? Bound to be far more radical than my proposal of a “missional experiment” running alongside the established congregation, while preaching and teaching your heart out to the established group about the nature of the Kingdom of God and God’s mission.
I know you have worked in revitalisation and know what a tall order it is… but in Neil we see a person with a missional heart who just might be able to pull it off.
I’d certainly be hopeful that God calls some to the work of turning around existing churches… He loves His people there too.
Neil, I have been alerted to this ongoing discussion by the ever attentive Jan. Perhaps we wil tka the issue of what I call ‘remissioanlization’ up at another point. In fact I know we will. But I think in the kind of scenario you present here will mean that the task of leadership will be to disturb the sleepy equilibrium of a small Baptist church in Sydney and take them on a journey of learning. They need to be put ‘at risk’ again.
The Forgotten Ways: Einführung…
{Dies ist der zweite Post zu Alan Hirsch’s The Forgotten Ways: Reactivating the Missional Church”. Den Appetizer findest Du hier. Ab sofort gebe ich direkt Hirschs Formulierungen wieder, die erste Person singular bezieht sich also auf Ala…