Let the master speak…

At this point in our discussion, I thought it might be worth referring to the seriously insightful, even prescient, Asbury Prof, Howard Snyder. (Let this inform our disucssion below–lets keep going.) The following ten “Theses on Renewal” from Liberating the Church summarize Howard Snyder’s most basic convictions about the nature and calling of the church—and what is needed for its renewal. In more recent books he has amplified some of these points and added other accents (for instance, the importance of a Trinitarian perspective), but virtually everything he has written on the church and the Kingdom of God is contained at least embryonically in these ten theses:

  1. The fundamental crisis of the church today is a crisis of the Word of God. The church must recover the full dynamic of the Word, not just as Scripture, but as God-in-communication, especially through the written Word of Scripture and supremely through the Incarnate Word, Jesus Christ. This is another way of saying the church must recover a consciousness of who God is.
  2. Behaviors and structures in the church reflect fundamental concepts in the church’s self-understanding which often remain unarticulated.
  3. The church is essentially the community of God’s people, not primarily an organization, institution, program, or building. This is a distinction of fundamental importance because it is linked to the basic models of the church which Christians employ.
  4. The experience of salvation is incomplete and not fully biblical without genuine experience of the church as the community of God’s people and agent of the Kingdom.
  5. The most dynamic and prophetic thing the church can do is first of all to be a worshiping and serving community.
  6. Every believer is a minister, servant and priest of God. Every believer is called to ministry, and all God’s people must be equipped to minister.
  7. Every believer receives grace for ministry. Therefore spiritual gifts must be identified and employed to God’s glory.
  8. Leadership grows out of discipleship. Where careful discipling is lacking, leadership cannot be biblical and a crisis of spiritual leadership results. Worldly qualifications for leadership replace biblical ones.
  9. The church’s concern for and identification with the poor are sure signs of its faithfulness to the Kingdom and are often signs of fundamental renewal.
  10. In North America today a vital, biblically faithful church will be a countercultural community living in tension with the non-Christian elements of society and marked by a lifestyle that is distinctively Christ-like and Kingdom oriented.

Howard A. Snyder, Liberating the Church: The Ecology of Church and Kingdom (InterVarsity Press, 1983), 17-18.

January 14, 2007 | Filed Under missional church, organizational stuff, the forgotten ways |  

Comments

15 Responses to “Let the master speak…”

  1. Alan Hirsch on January 14th, 2007 2:25 pm

    I reckon points 2,3,4 above relate directly to what we were saying in the previous post. Especially #2.

  2. frank doiron on January 15th, 2007 1:07 am

    relating to # 2
    If I read the evangelical church (EC) right their big mission is the proclamation of the Word of God. As a result they have sermons, Sunday school, adult Sunday school. Mid week bible studies, DVBS, youth groups that focus in on bible studies, summer camp that have a daily church service that have sermons around the word. If a man or a women wants to reach out to their neighbour(s) they have some kind of ladies or men’s bible study. Then there are men’ and ladies retreats. They all have to have a speaker. When a special speaker comes in for a series of meetings (in a certain city), those meetings almost always revolve around a church service format culminating in a sermon. Then there are audio teaching tapes, videos, tapes, books and devotionals all around how we can figure out what the Word of God says. I could go on here,
    Now I do not want to devalue the Word of God but because the evangelical church’s conception of its mission is for us to gather and hear the Word of God, nothing else really rates. The church service is mandatory because the centerpiece is a learned man expounding the word. Everything else is optional. Mission, community, helping the poor, building relationships, helping the widow, the orphan…… Not that there isn’t anything happening in these things but they subservient to expounding the word.
    Because sitting and listening (to the Word) has become the work of the E.C. we have become quite apathetic to any kind of mission where there involves a cost. ( I am speaking generally here for I know people in the traditional church who reach out in costly ways). Preparing for that Sunday morning is now the work….. and that is where we invest our time, money and resources. We see no problem with the billions upon billions of dollars we spend on buildings so we can come on Sunday mornings for an hour and a half and a couple of hours for a youth group on Friday nights. We have these buildings so the pastor can have an office to prepare for his sermons. But that’s OK since the centerpiece is the Sunday morning service building up to the grand centerpiece the “sermon.”

    The big question is how does that change? What if the Sunday morning service no longer becomes the centerpiece but a people, with Jesus as the center, who are passionate about being disciples? The answer does not lie so much in a change of structure (though we desperately do need that), it lies in that when we have changed the structures, are the people in these structures changed themselves and willing to count the cost?

  3. The Boars Head Tavern » Blog Archive » on January 15th, 2007 3:00 am

    [...] Alan Hirsch blogs about the man who ruined my experience of the institutional church long ago: Howard Snyder. He nicely summarizes Snyder’s key concepts of seeing the church as “the Community of the King.” [...]

  4. Peter D on January 15th, 2007 9:04 am

    Nice stuff Frank…

    I have often thought that some have made the Church into an idol…. do you think that we could go as far as to say that the bible can also become an idol???…

    Just a thought, don’t hold me to it if you think I’m being heretical…

  5. Kieran on January 15th, 2007 11:01 am

    Peter, i have been asking that same question about the Bible recently. I feel it can and has been. it is God’s revealed written word, but it is not God. it shouldn’t be the centrepiece of our faith, our intimate, passionate relationship with Jesus and our whole hearted alliegance to his cause. The Bible reveal this Jesus and teaches us about Him but without an active relationship, may as well be nothing but an interesting history book.

    By the way i love number 8. I have read a few books that like to set the church up like a business of corporation. they unashamedly tell you to look for those who are sucessful and influential in the business world to be on your church board or leadership. i have often found these people more likel to push their own agenda. Jesus uses the foolish to shame the wise. JEsus’ kingdom manifesto, the sermon on the mount, shows the kingdom reality to be the copmlete counter culture to our earthly reality. WE limit ourselves and the kingdoms movements if we only use corporate type people. although they, like everyone have a role, we hould not see their business/corporate sucess as an advantage over the stay at home mum, or ex-con, or socially awkward.

    Peace out.

  6. Kieran on January 15th, 2007 11:03 am

    In my last post i left out a couple of words. Where is says “our intimate, passionate relationship with Jesus and our whole hearted alliegance to his cause” i meant to finish that sentance with “should be the centrepiece of our faith.

    PEace again.

  7. Janet on January 15th, 2007 11:44 am

    Yes, point 8 jumped out at me as well… I was in a meeting last week discussing developing leadership within my denomination and ranted about this… unless passionate discipleship of Jesus is the foundation, your natural leaders can simply lead you up the garden path.

  8. Alan Hirsch on January 15th, 2007 12:28 pm

    And yet look at most of our ‘boards of management’ or the like. Mostly built on secular ideas of governance and leadership. Don’t get me started on Carver models of governance!!

  9. Alan Hirsch on January 15th, 2007 1:18 pm

    Incidentally, on #8, I will say exactly the same thing when we come to the mDNA of discipleship. If discipleship means becoming like Jesus, then leadership should only be more so.

  10. Theses on Renewal : CrossConnect on January 15th, 2007 1:19 pm

    [...] This came from Alan Hirsch’s blog.  I admit I don’t know who Howard Snyder is, except that he is at Asbury Seminary in KY, but I like these 10 keys: The following ten “Theses on Renewal” from Liberating the Church summarize my most basic convictions about the nature and calling of the church—and what is needed for its renewal. In more recent books I have amplified some of these points and added other accents (for instance, the importance of a Trinitarian perspective), but virtually everything I have written on the church and the Kingdom of God is contained at least embryonically in these ten theses: [...]

  11. Bob Carder on January 20th, 2007 5:59 pm

    Howard Snyder wrote something when that something was the expectation. If we could look at his 10 whatever’s outside of the lens of the western Church we would see a different list. We might even see a list just like the one He gave us in His example and Great Commission without all of our own definitions of what it means to obey the Great Co-Mission and live like Jesus!

    Take number 1, “The fundamental crisis of the church today is a crisis of the Word of God…” (I just did something in a bucket - sorry for the unpleasant visual). Howard sir, we are already educated way beyond our level of obedience. Why don’t we just do what Jesus has already taught us to do or was it be? Oh no, we need another sermon, we must learn more Scripture. (Maybe a little sarcasm here).

    Making disciples in a non westernized contaminated way (the Jesus way) will result in Christ followers living in the world so that the world can see Jesus so that Jesus can work through our lives to redeem those who need Him.

    I can do church very well without God. I can do church really well by learning the Word and not living it all out. (Hope I didn’t pop your bubble). BUT, I cannot be the Church without Him or obedience to His word!

    I don’t for a second believe that we can be the Body of Christ and not look like Jesus! I enjoyed Frank’s rave - actually I loved it. Did you know that the Body of Christ can meet together and honor God without a sermon? What if, we have no sermon this Sunday but instead we allowed God to give His message through the Christ family as He leads. Can you imagine the excitement of a Church gathered to celebrate the ways they witnessed God at work as their lives intersected with others in the world? Can you feel the excitement of new believers sharing about how God used them to disciple another to become a believer?

    It’s starts with transformation in my heart in a way that it is birthed in yet another. Am I wrong to believe that if all Christ followers did that we might actually see how unimportant the (Howard) list really is?

    Alan, tell me please, why do I bristle so at this list. I feel the list has some merit but as a whole it just misses the mark for such a time as this. Drastic times demand drastic measures.

  12. frank doiron on January 21st, 2007 5:35 am

    Bob, thanks for your comment. You played the “what if game.” What if we had no sermon…………” Well you and I both know that is NOT going to happen. If it does happen one Sunday it will only be a one Sunday thing. It is for that reason we need this kind of discussion and others like it. I like the list of 10…. It doesn’t bother me. What does bother me is this sinking feeling that when all this discussion is through, I fear there will be precious few that will want to live in an alternative story. I have been following blogs for the last three or four years and all we seem to be getting is discussion and more discussion……. Quotes and more quotes, referrals to more and more books. At some point we have to realize that one question leads to one question that leads to another question …… it could go on forever. At some point we have to be spurred on to living this out.
    I am not a big fan of the Sunday morning Service. In fact I believe it works against what we are talking about here. I am not as hopeful as Alan or others that the institutional church will make any significant changes…… I know they can give me exceptions, but that is what they are exceptions. My wife and I can no longer invest our lives in trying to make changes in the traditional church (its a losing battle). We are moving out helping single moms and planning trips to Peru (with these single moms) ……… Anyone want to come along……….

  13. Bob Carder on January 21st, 2007 4:55 pm

    Frank, I’m with you and we are doing it. We meet in homes, but we are not a home church. We meet in restaurants, coffee shops, and office buildings during the week. We meet twice a month on Saturday as a combined group for worship, communion, sharing what God is doing in our lives and we end with a carry in meal. Our first disciple making church plant has a vision to spin out 20+ disciple driven Churches all around the St. Louis metro. We do not own buildings but instead give the money in offerings back to those who need it most in community. Our people serve in the community (not the church) according to their natural God given passions, temperaments and gifting. We empower and never control them to serve our specified programs. We release them to be used by God and you know what? It works!

    We are spurred on to living this out. And, it works in a way I have never experienced in 24 years of senior level pastoring. We are seeing things we have only dreamt of. When we let God do whatever and get out of His way, live by faith, listen instead of just hearing, the movement quickly spins beyond our ability to contain it. Which is really exciting.

    I could say more!

  14. jewel on January 21st, 2007 6:37 pm

    Frank, I can hear your frustration however some, like myself have come the the table recently. I have found this blog increadibly helpful in clarifying my own thoughts on a number of issues. These discussions have also made me acutely aware that action is needed on my part; to test out the reality not just think about it.

    So please be encouraged. Think of these discussions as an iceburg it’s all you can see but there is a lot more happening under the surface.

  15. frank doiron on January 22nd, 2007 3:30 am

    Bob
    Wow! You said you could say more. Please please do. What you are proposing is exciting to say the least. I am all for discussion but I truly get spurred on by hearing what others are doing. Somehow I’d like to keep hearing about your journey and how things work out there. I live almost directly North of you in Winnipeg.

    Jewel
    Thank you for your encouragement. I am really glad to hear that this is making you think of action and not merely discussion. i believe that this discussion will help a lot of people.. there really is a need for it….. and I do believe that Alan is geared for action rather than mere discussion and that makes me hopeful.

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