spiderman v. batman

Debs and I are in the final stages of packing up our goodies and tying up our countless loose ends so that we can move to the US in June. What a pain! I suppose one of the benefits is that one gets to clean out all the ’stuff’ one collects over the years. Well, I pulled out some notes from some long forgotten meeting and noted an intriguing metaphor for the institutional v. the organic church…namely Batman v. Spiderman. Why?  Well, Spiderman has intrinsic gifts and abilities, his capacity to do his marvels is because he is some wierd combo of a spider and a man. He can climb walls, has great strength, etc. Whereas Batman has no intrinsic (super) gifting. Rather, he tends to use expensive extrinsic media….tools. He uses them well of course, but he is fundamentally different to Spiderman on this point–namely intrinsic v. extrinsic gifting. Cool metaphor eh?

batman.jpgspiderman_skyscaper.jpg

We can acknowledge that they are both super-heroes of course. :-)

May 9, 2007 | Filed Under missional church, organizational stuff |  

Comments

33 Responses to “spiderman v. batman”

  1. Alan Hirsch on May 9th, 2007 11:58 am

    By the way, my same set of notes say that our theology of homosexual and therefore unreproductive. Meaning that it involves a whole lot of (white) men messing with each other’s heads! :-)

  2. Deek on May 9th, 2007 2:19 pm

    I knew I loved spiderman for some reason and collected many of comic books when I was younger. Blessings during this time of transition.

  3. Celtic Son on May 9th, 2007 3:48 pm

    Interesting metaphor Al… I’d much prefer to think that Batman’s muscular physique was the result of intrinsic gifting than extrinsic work!!

    Like all metaphor’s it is of course imperfect and raises as many questions as it answers like… well… it would be mean to be an iconoclast, bursting bubbles as early as the third post on a new thread… it’s nice for all of us to have some light relief from time to time…

    Slainte

    A Celtic Son

  4. Alan Hirsch on May 9th, 2007 4:17 pm

    My bet on Spideydude to kick the Batdudes ass Celtic Son. What are the odds? :-)

  5. Celtic Son on May 9th, 2007 6:37 pm

    yeah but who’s gonna kick Nietzsche’s Superman’s butt? ;-)

    rock up Jesus… the death defeater!~!

    Slainte

    A Celtic Son

  6. Eleanor Burne-Jones on May 9th, 2007 8:54 pm

    Well thats ok for you guys but I’m still out either here on DS9, watching the various aliens come and go, or lost in the Delta Quadrant with Voyager going into their space and getting into lots of trouble….
    :0)

  7. Adam Mayfield on May 9th, 2007 10:13 pm

    Alan, thanks for the metaphor. I will definitely be using that in the future. I will try to remember the first few times that I heard it from you, but then after sharing it it 5th or 6th time, I will claim the rights.

    By the way it was awesome meeting and sitting through some of your sessions at the National New Church Conference. :)

  8. Charlie on May 10th, 2007 3:28 am

    Big Al,

    Blessing on the packing my friend. If you have some good old Pinotage, save a bottle for your Pasadena friend! See you in a month or so.

  9. James Nored on May 10th, 2007 7:59 am

    Alan,

    Sorry for being gone a while in posting. I’m ready to get back into the discussion.

    Looking forward to you coming to the States. I heard you met Stan Granberg, director of Kairos (a church planting organization) at the new churches conference. You can really be a great help to the missional church planting movement here in the US. Besides Mission Alive and Kairos, I’ve gotten to know Phil at Nexus. He also heard you at the conference. If I can help connect you with anyone in our movement, let me know.

    Hope to see you this summer when I go to Fuller for my next class (June 18).

    Alan is coming! Alan is coming! Alan is coming!

    James

  10. Peggy Brown on May 10th, 2007 1:49 pm

    Yo, Alan…watch out for Spidey’s dark side….

    Blessings on you and Debs as you clean out and pack up for your trek to Southern California and beyond.

    James, is that Phil Claycomb at Nexus?

  11. brad on May 10th, 2007 2:13 pm

    ummm … yeah, so all analogies are flawed and we shouldn’t attempt to make ‘em walk/crawl/fly on all fours.

    so, we have Bruce Wayne, who is a trust-baby, though he gained his fundage through tragic means. but i also thought he was bright and used his brains to figure out stuff, not just bought the stuff. brains are intrinsic, too, and i thought he tried to optimize what he had.

    and we have Peter Parker, a more home-spun hero who figures out his powers (with the help of Dr Pepper, who, I might add, is my therapist of choice!) and then uses them best as he can, freaking out every so often, but returning to true north in time for the next sequel, thankfully.

    and really, whether Batman or Spider-Man, the superhero issue is always stewardship, is it not? “With great powers-gifts-abilities-opportunities come great responsibility.” it’s about character. anything we intrinsically possess (brains, brawn, radioactivated superpowers, looks, etc.) - those are characteristics, NOT character qualities. what we do with those characteristics creates our character.

    okay, that rant was inspired by the commodification of intellect, an issue which i had to face down recently, again.

    would we rather be known as people who are smart/strong/superwhatever/stunning, or as people who are compassionate/vulnerable/servants/faithful …

  12. brad on May 10th, 2007 2:15 pm

    p.s. i wish i wuz gonna be going to fuller, too!

  13. alan hirsch on May 10th, 2007 6:11 pm

    Hehe, witty comments.

  14. James Nored on May 10th, 2007 9:42 pm

    Peggy,

    Yes, I was referring to Phil Claycomb. Phil has a background originally in Stadia, which has helped plant more than 100 churches. Nexus is a type of offshoot of Stadia.

    James

  15. Peggy Brown on May 11th, 2007 4:01 am

    James,

    I know Phil from before his Stadia days…I dialogued with him for most of 1996 about the possibility of joining a church planting team of his! He has been an encouragement to me. Small world, eh? …getting smaller every day! ;0

    Peggy

  16. James Nored on May 11th, 2007 4:35 am

    Peggy,

    That is amazing. It really is a small world! I have been talking with Phil about missional concepts and church planting. I’ll let him know of our connection.

    James

  17. Peggy Brown on May 11th, 2007 6:31 am

    James,

    Do give Phil my greetings…saw him most recently in Olathe, Kansas at a church planting conference last September. Things have really changed, grown and blossomed since then…I’ll have to catch him up one of these days! I guess I didn’t know you were a RM guy, either :)

    Peggy

  18. James Nored on May 11th, 2007 12:35 pm

    Peggy,

    It’s always good to find RM in the missional movement. And Alan’s background in the RM gives me hope for our fellowship, that we will discover our missional purpose.

    James

  19. alan hirsch on May 11th, 2007 3:05 pm

    Thanks James. Now I’ve got perfomance anxiety! Dohh!

  20. James Nored on May 11th, 2007 3:32 pm

    No problem, Alan. To those whom much is given, much is expected!

    Performance anxiety . . . Hmm–Does Deb know about this? :)

  21. Alan Hirsch on May 11th, 2007 3:47 pm

    I can’t perform with the RM! Ssshhhh, its our secret! :-)

  22. Peggy Brown on May 12th, 2007 5:08 am

    Yeah, Alan…we can’t let the RM know about your pentie-on-a-mission secret identity…you secret’s totally safe with me, bro ;)

  23. Alan Hirsch on May 12th, 2007 11:23 am

    Ahh thanks guys. Now I am outed, anxious, ex-undercover pentie on a mission to Sugarland.

  24. Peggy Brown on May 12th, 2007 12:11 pm

    [Cypergremlin alert: if this appears to be a repeat, Mr. Phelps, please have the following comment self-destruct...]

    No worries, Alan…we’ll watch your back!

    Besides, none of “them” will ever find their way to this thread ;)

    Get ready to see the awesome power of God unleashed on Sugarland…with Hirshey’s fingerprints! :)

  25. Janet on May 12th, 2007 8:59 pm

    Great partly last night Al… I had a hoot.

    Australia’s loss is America’s gain.

  26. Bob Carder on May 14th, 2007 3:24 am

    Alan is my super hero. He can confront any rebuttal and he can write books that challenge the hardest of heads and the stubbornness of the multitudes, he can draw a crowd like no other blogger land. Oh did I mention he is more creative than the average one of his kind?

    Alan is my hero! He exceeds Batman and Spider man in super human chain.

    There he goes soaring new heights like a missile in missional. I’m with Alan, forget Superman and Spider man! Can’t wait to see your next film.

    Alan, my hero! :)

  27. Susan on May 14th, 2007 7:31 am

    Hey Alan,

    AndrewHii’s Susan here :) - where r u moving to? and what will you be doing there?

    (email me, bec. I also want to intro you to this group which wants to meet more LA emerging church ppl http://www.stmaryslondon.com which set up http://www.artisaninitiatives.com)

    I’ve been living in London, and they reminded me alot of your approach and what you pioneered with South and Forge

  28. Bob Carder on May 15th, 2007 6:19 am

    Alan, did you delete me? You rascal!

  29. JP on May 15th, 2007 10:35 am

    Alan, love the blog, love the superhero metaphor, but totally dig The Forgotten Ways. I started it a couple of days ago on the advice of Len Sweet. I’m looking forward to meeting you in November at his Mountain Advance in W.V.

    Hey, is that Sugarland Texas or somewhere on the left coast?

  30. alan hirsch on May 15th, 2007 11:04 am

    Hey Bob, I never delete praise, even the good old tongue-in-cheek variety! :-) Your words are incribed in Wordpress forever.

    Actually I have been too busy moving house to delete anyone. I feel kinda sad at having left my beloeved home in St. Kilda. We are still waiting for our visa. The bureacrats are taking us to the line on this! For those who pray here, pleae pray.

  31. Andrew on May 17th, 2007 10:47 pm

    Bravo … fantastic metaphor. Love this kind of stuff.

  32. Bob Carder on May 22nd, 2007 1:18 pm

    You deleted me! What’s up with that?

  33. alan hirsch on May 22nd, 2007 2:13 pm

    Bob I promise, I never deleted you. We have been having some problem with some recognition of the key punters. Will look into it.

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