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7 Responses to “suffering for jesus in the bahamas”

1. Patrick on August 12th, 2007 1:46 am

   Now you’ve gone and triggered my cynicism again.

2. alan hirsch on August 12th, 2007 5:24 am

   Why Pat? Just so that you know, I am not going. I am just promoting the event or them. Sounds good though doesn’t it?

3. Bruce on August 12th, 2007 7:42 am

   My first thought was that hosting this event in the Bahamas was a bit over the top, until I heard Spencer explain that it is actually cheaper to attend the event there then it would be if it were held in Southern California.

4. Alan Hirsch on August 12th, 2007 9:12 am

   true! It is actually very affordable.

5. Patrick on August 13th, 2007 4:46 am

   Okay, when I said my cynicism is triggered again, it doesn’t mean I’m right about it. But I feel what I feel, and so maybe it’s worth me teasing out a bit, even if I’m wrong.

   So, I checked it out and noticed the same thing that Bruce noticed. Well, that’s okay, I guess. That makes sense. Living on the West Coast means I’m really far away from that, but they had one in Ventura not too long ago, so I’m sure that the Bahama’s is much more convenient for East Coast folks.

   Still… I guess I’m cynical because the first thought that popped into my head was those cruises that big ministries have. Go on the End Times cruise! Stuff your face and talk about the Signs and Wonders.

   Makes me think of all of this as a “movement” that is based on celebrity and paying a lot of money to hear someone say what they write in their books. Growing up in the Evangelical church I learned how really expensive it is to be a Leader or even a real Christian. There’s always a camp, or a conference, or something that the well off could attend. So, that’s sort of one source of my cynicism.

   Second, is this missional? Yes, it’s affordable, but it has the appearance of elitist. Go hobnob with all the great names of the movement. Go and receive from them then bring it back to the little people who didn’t go. I guess I see in this a creeping hierarchicalism.

   I guess I don’t see a hotel (even off season!) as a liminal place.

   If we are emphasizing Jesus then that seems that model should be applied at every level.

   So, all this to say is that it raises my cynicism because it seems so typically, well, Evangelical. I thought the whole message was getting us away from that sort of pomp. This is a great event to be sure, but I can’t help think it leads farther away rather than towards the goals expressed in EMC conversation.

   But then this makes me sound judgmental, and I’m really trying not to be. The folks involved in that are doing significantly more than I am, so what do I know?

   And it does sound good. Fun too!

6. spencer burke on August 15th, 2007 4:41 am

   Patrick,

   it is hard to fight the perception of the Bahamas - cost was one of the factors (it is cheaper to fly from NYC, Minneapolis, Seattle and Canada than to fly to San Diego and pay hotel and conference fees). Soularize has been the one safe place for those who have left the comfort of the established church and their conference budgets. many have to take time off of work as well. this has become more than a conference, for some, it is a family gathering and it is alway great to see the friendships pick up from last year and new ones begin.

   there are two other important reasons why we chose the Bahamas;

   1) this is the first international venue for the missional / emerging conversation - i am surprised how many people in the USA are unaware of how difficult and expensive it is for our international friends to come to US. it is only 60 miles off of our coast but it makes a world of difference for many desiring to engage on neutral ground…

   2) we are always connected to a local ministry and spend a year or more working with them on the event to ensure this is not a “road show”. all of the creativity and experiences are in collaboration with Clint, Tim, Kelly, Gillian, Christian (New Providence Community Church) and local artists, musicians and families. you should check out all of the spaces we are using to create the conversation and learning experiences http://www.soularize.net (no hotels or conference centers…)

   i am always interested in finding new ways to communicate what we are trying to accomplish. i know it is counter-intuitive to think of this as missional and good stewardship, but that is exactly what we are trying to accomplish… any insights would be appreciated.

7. Patrick on August 15th, 2007 5:04 am

   Spencer, thanks for this clarification. I know you didn’t need to do it and so I appreciate it. It seems I was right to question myself. (Always assuming the best from good people has saved me from succumbing to cynicism the last few years).

   Your two points are very good. Changes my whole perception. Like I said I’m from California, so the Bahamas seems especially exotic to me, as it’s quite a bit a ways away.

   Your points also I think more accurately describe the goals, but it seems the advertising blurb posted above was to get a different feel. Key words that stuck out:

   Private Island (which colors how I read the rest of these), Art Studios, Swim w/Sharks, Social Network, Lecture Hall, Limited to 500 attendees

   Totally Wired Conference (Emphasizing the technology gap of social classes — which I note as I type on my DSL networked newish Dell computer)

   The impression of the blurb is entirely different than the impression of your comment here. To be honest I think communication that emphasizes the missional aspects and good stewardship, which is honest, would be a great communication.

   Coming from an Evangelical, consumeristic oriented, culture I struggle with appeals to the perks, and get excited about the opportunities for missional connection, international interaction, and local participation.

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