going troppo! the way of obedience
Bonhoeffer believed that the only way to truly comprehend the revelation of God in scripture is by approaching it with the pre-commitment to obey it. For those interested in weird theological terms, he calls this ‘tropological exegesis’ or simply ‘tropology’. Bonhoeffer can therefore speak of discipleship as a ‘problem of exegesis’ and goes on to say, “By eliminating simple obedience on principle, we drift into an unevangelical interpretation of the Bible.” So, if we never obey God we can never understand or follow him. Simply believing right doctrine is not enough. As followers of Jesus, we have to start obeying long before we know and understand much of Him whom we obey. More than that, if we take obedience out of the equation, we cannot even hope to truly understand the bible. Calvin can claim that true knowledge of God is born out of obedience, and to obey takes us to the path of action, of praxis, of goodness.
We are saved by grace, not by works. Hence we cannot glorify works. Yet doing them is indispensable, for they are prepared in advance by God, they are in his ‘plan,’ and we are created to do them (Eph.2:10). In Paul, then, practice (praxis) is the visible criterion that we have seriously received grace and also that we have entered effectively into God’s plan. For Paul, as for Jesus, practice is the touchstone of authenticity. “We are in the presence here of something that is constant across the centuries (J.Ellul, Subversion of Christianity, 5).
Comments
15 Responses to “going troppo! the way of obedience”
Leave a Reply
The Books
COMING SOON!
Affiliates
Recent Blog Entries
Recent Comments
-
The Problem of institutions (Part I)
- Eleanor Burne-Jones said: Surely we can't create...
- Alan Hirsch said: They come and go all too...
- Andrew said: Just noticed a wording...
- Andrew said: Didn't notice the word ...
- Alan Hirsch said: By the way, if it is not...
- Andrew said: A postscript to my last...
- Andrew said: I don’t know whether you...
- alan hirsch said: Agent B sounds very...
- Agent B said: No fair. You can write...
- Michael McAleer said: I think there are two...
This is an interesting take on testing the claim of scripture (and Jesus) as the revelation of God.
I have a friend who struggles with the issue of a god who reveals himself. This might be a useful point for sparking some conversation.
Where can I find more from Bonhoeffer on this subject?
Cosmo, I first got onto this in Bonhoeffer in a book called “The Form of Christ in the World.” But I have had to go searching for more. Put it together.
This reminds me of my baptism. In obedience I knew only Jesus could save me, so I submitted my life. Yet, that same night in the middle of The Lord’s Prayer, I stopped and asked God, “but who is this Jesus?” Before I knew it I was conversing directly with Jesus in prayer asking Him to reveal Himself. Kind of like forgiveness. Regardless of your feelings you must do it and trust God to rework and restore all the pieces.
It sounds weird but being indifferent most of my life is helping me to obey God and I think helps us to grow. We depend to much on feelings, which are by far to fickle! I’m learning to obey God by loving my husband even when in that moment I may feel anything but love. I’m going to stress “Learning” because my temper has a way of making a liar out of me.
Okay, Alan…I’m putting my foot down on more big words! First it’s Matt and orthoprassy…and now you and Bonhoffer with Tropology…
…sigh…okay, I’m back!
Great thoughts, Penney…thanks for sharing. Jesus can help you with your temper, too…
This is the foundation of covenant-keeping, you know. The doing of that which you’ve learned and then committed to is what leads to knowing…
Peggy, I’m really trying hard on the temper thing. When I first came into the church about 7 years ago I was so grateful to finally have some guidance in my life. I believe we must love, honor, and obey those God put’s over us. However, because so many leaders put their identity in the church or their doctrine they try to use obedience to conform you to their image. This nearly cost me my family, my job, my marriage, and my life. While I am grateful for the experience it is still a little raw. I went through a terrible identity crisis but all those things I nearly lost, I also gained back in a very rich way. I may sound like I’m complaining but I am truley grateful. My mother who everyone had given up on, read to me for the first time in my life. She read from the scriptures and I must tell you I’m 40years old, but it was worth the wait. I would just obey God when He told me to love her even when I didn’t know how. My church is growing now, out of my home, my family, my neighborhood, and my job. Those who had brought and taught me about Christ now pray for my return. I am considered the Prodigal Son. It hurts when they look at me with pity because I love my leaders so much, I wanted to share my joy. Yet, the only thing they see in me is a disobedient child. How sad!~
Penney,
It is sad, indeed! I will pray for you and for those who don’t understand you. But I firmly believe that obedience must be to God first and foremost, and then carefully rendered to those who either must be trusted or can be trusted…but always only to those who are themselves obedient to God.
I hope you’ve gone back and looked at the various leadership threads Alan has posted here at TFW…lots of good stuff there.
We all get down the path one step at a time…
Blessings,
Peggy
“they try to use obedience to conform you to their image.”
This is called spiritual abuse… and you should NOT obey those who perpetrate it.
There’s some good books written on this subject I believe…
Hi Penney…
It always grieves me when people have suffered at the hands of ineptitude on the part of church leadership. It’s of particular concern because I have been on the receiving end AND I am currently leading a church community, aware of my imperfections and my capacity to hurt people, though error and oversight. When damage is being done in a person’s family, marriage, job and life - shepherds of God’s flock have a responsibility to look after and care for the people in need… not simply demand obedience! The prophet Jeremiah had something to say about that (Jer 23
)
One of the great challenges we each face is the growth journey to become more Christlike (2 Cor 3:16-18
) in effect becoming the person that God always created you to be. We are on a journey, shedding the layers of this world that we wear, untruths imposed by others and, with a lack of understanding of the truth, we have allowed, accepted even embraced. I’d suggest that your temper doesn’t make a liar out of you, but that there is a liar who continually suggests that to you… The truth is that in Christ there are no liars, in Christ all are holy and righteous (Eph 4
esp 22-24)
One of the great challenges that the church faces is to grow Christlike leaders. The church, even in much of the “emerging” church world, relies on a hierarchical design drawn from worldly governmental and economic models. From a pragmatic perspective it works to some extent, but it is not the servant leadership promoted and modelled by Jesus Christ. We have attempted to disguise our plagiarism by flattening the structure a little, but that tends to create communication limitations that are also unhelpful.
Jesus faces every situation with another person, from the perspective of what is best for the other person’s growth journey, what is needed for them to become the person God created them to be. If they require healing body, soul and/or spirit that is what He brings, if they require to be challenged about their reliance on their own resources, that is what He does. Jesus approach is not based on what He can benefit from the situation, He serves each person with His leadership for their benefit - even if they reject His counsel and reject Him. That is how leaders in Christ’s body are intended to be, when we do not live in that way we disqualify ourselves from the right to lead, and from any expectation that authentic fruit can come from leadership decisions that are made from self interest, or based on using others for our benefit.
Where you have been a victim of ungodly leadership, if possible make people aware of the harm they have done to you and ultimately forgive those responsible and move on. You no longer have to be subject to emotions that once had an unhealthy control, in Christ you are free. As we read on in Eph 4
, Paul encourages us with a line from Psalm 4
and suggests that we are capable of giving the devil a foothold in our lives by allowing our anger to take over, BUT the beauty is we no longer need to live there we have the capacity in Christ to live free of our past.
Many blessings in your journey to become the Penney Winiarski that God created you to be, and that He already sees you are…
Slainte
A Celtic Son
Always great to hear your words C.S.
Another comment I’d like to throw in is that anger is not in itself a bad thing… God gets angry at sin and injustice!
Anger is a perfectly valid response to unrighteousness… Jesus was plain angry with the money changers at the temple… and when he launched off into his “Woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!!!” he wasn’t feeling calm and impassive.
Truly losing one’s temper out of selfishness or pride… that’s the inner toddler at work! Directing anger appropriately to right a wrong… now that’s another matter.
Totally got my vote Janet…
Righteous anger is surely a beautiful thing… I just haven’t experienced it myself that much! I’ve tended to struggle to be most like Jesus when my anger rises, and the inner two year old can still throw a tantrum from time to time - it seems to mostly come upon me in traffic - fortunately much less than in the seasons of my misspent youth!
Righteous anger can lead people into mission, can cause people to challenge corrupt governments and raise a movement to make poverty history… bring it on I say!!
Slainte
A Celtic Son
Good words, Janet and CS…as always.
It seems to me, though, that Penney is struggling with the garden variety of temper at home (with husband, family, etc.), and that she is concerned that this makes her look the liar to those around her who are wondering what it means for her to be Christian.
Certainly I struggle with temper…frustration with the little things in life requires so much patience. Truly, I find that if I remember to do the “count to 10″ exercise…or stop and close my eyes and ask for God to help me…it is the most important thing I can do in the moment!
Personally, I have found very few times when even my righteous anger has been helpful…we see Jesus engage in it relatively rarely. More often, he used pointed stories and phrases to cut to the heart of those who were being unjust or unloving.
In all these scenarios, however, it is important to remember that there is always a point to be had by expressing righteous anger…and that, in my experience, is the delicate part. And the challenge to “be angry, but do not sin.”
I think we need a lot more understanding in this area, personally. When we’re angry, is it for ourselves? Is it for others? Are the people at whom we are angry doing that they are doing intentionally or ignorantly?
There’s the rub, eh? Only God knows the heart. We can only ask for his wisdom to be revealed to us. And when we give voice to our anger, it must be done in such a way as to not break covenant ourselves.
…yes, righteous anger can lead people to do the right thing, but it must also be done in the right way. And the right way always lays the cost at one’s own door, in the self-sacrifice of servant leadership, not at the door of another in judgement and “you should” guilt.
We are outraged at someone’s actions and demand that they do such and so to rectify it. But we cannot make them to it and it sounds hollow and shrill to point the finger and rail.
Might the better way to be one that says “I will not submit to this abuse and to show my resolve, I will refrain from _______ (you fill in the blank). That blank must be something vital enough for people to sit up and notice…it cannot be idle threats and it cannot be threats that harm another. And the things against which we rail must be needs that are truly being denied, not wants that are not being fulfilled.
Have we lost the ability to creatively suffer for Christ and our brothers and sisters in his Body, the Church? Hmmm….I’m really processing this…
If you’ve been following my thoughts about the Purple Martrydom, you’ll see how so many things are having a different light cast upon them for me these days…a purple light, as it were.
Blessings,
Thank you all for the advice. I’ll be reading the leadership threads but I also would like to read the book “The Form of Christ in The World”
Part of humility I believe is realizing the possiblities. Both for the good and the bad. I know I am a mule born breach and also just as capable of trying to conform others. One thing I will say about my former leaders is they always taught me how human they are. Fear is a strength and weakness. I think they loved me so much they wanted to protect me. That’s not a bad thing, as a matter of fact, I’ve desired that all my life. How awesome to finally have a family that really cares. They will always be my leaders with a special place in my heart. I pray someday they will trust God enough to love me in the same way.
Peggy, I didn’t see your final response. Wow, your good! What you said about anger IS true obedience. I love the Christ in you!
I heard Alan talk about Michael Frost’s small group discipliship model - the B.L.E.S.S. acronym. Sounded like the model aimed at obedience over learning, but I have not been able to find anything from Michael directly on the it. Any thoughts on where I can dig this up?
Brian, you might try the Missio (CRM) guys. They recorded Mike on this.