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12 Responses to “something profound here…”

1. Matt Stone on February 20th, 2008 11:27 am

   Agreed, I have said before that what separates us from God and each other is not our humanity but our inhumanity. We are called to recognize the humanity of those we need reconciliation with.

2. Scott Powell on February 20th, 2008 4:01 pm

   and this attitude is also a great antidote to the ‘holier than thou’ mindset.

3. Eleanor Burne-Jones on February 20th, 2008 4:18 pm

   Not only in mission, but in resolving/transforming church conflict.

   Often a critical driver in the energies of church conflict is the nature of the regard parties have for one another. While we all understand the tensions of conflict bring out the worst in all of us, I can’t help feeling there are entrenched attitudes of suspicion and disparagement (ie of laity or of clergy) in the background that were never confronted in the thinking of the church community before conflict exploded.

   Positive regard of one another as made in the image of God and loved by him is fundamental to the health of a gathering of believers.

4. Matt Stone on February 21st, 2008 12:59 am

   Yes, I must admit I struggle with guys like the Rev Fred (God Hates Fags) Phelps. Disparagement is not far from the surface there. In some ways I find hypocracy the hardest thing to deal with. Can I love a hypocrite?

5. Penney Winiarski on February 21st, 2008 2:21 am

   In some ways being indifferent for so long has actually helped me to be careful in judging others. Simply because I don’t trust my own heart. If that makes sense. When I say I love someone, there is always a question, “Do I really?”

   Learning what it means to be human is a deep struggle for me. I lived 33 years of my life having to watch other people to know how to respond. As I went through the loss of many, including my own twins, the guilt and fear were overwhelming. No healing could occur because I was so indifferent. It’s like a wound that festers. To now find that humanity in Christ is becoming such a relief. It’s like walking through it again, but not alone. The other cool part is for the first time in my life it makes me feel pure because, “Jesus was my first love.”

6. Penney Winiarski on February 21st, 2008 4:47 am

   Matt, your question must be a hypothetical one! You strike me as the type who knows he can.

   Can you imagine what’s it like to be such a coward, as Phelps? To fear suffering so much you become a bully? It’s certainly not life, simply, more like hell. I wonder if Jesus cries for Him?

7. Matt Stone on February 21st, 2008 10:30 am

   In my better moment I can, but I don’t always have better moments. From a distance Phelps strikes me as a man eaten up with bitterness. I have to remind myself, becoming bitter at bitter people only drags me into the same space. At time I find myself forgiving hurtful people more for my benefit than for theirs. Not sure that qualifies as unconditional love! He reminds me I still have plenty of stuff to work on. I expect Jesus does cry for him, and for me too in my worst moments. I remind myself, God made him too, Lord knows why, but he did. It would be so much easier to demonize him; when we have to face his humanity we have to face our own imperfection.

   I am touched by your own story. May God bless you with the joy that transcends circumstances.

8. Penney Winiarski on February 22nd, 2008 1:28 am

   Matt, a friend once gave me a book that really challenged me. It was by far too charismatic and I put it down after the first chapter. I’m actually very conservative in my ways, and my views. This author made a comment though, he said,”You must chew on the meat and throw away the bones.” I remembered that and wound up finishing the book. This author elevates himself, but I did find interesting stuff in there.

   It is for this reason I find truth even in those I strongly disagree with, and hope in the worst circumstances. By the way I wander over to your website, and very much enjoyed your thoughts. A lot to chew over.

9. Peggy on February 22nd, 2008 7:12 am

   Matt,

   I think that forgiving hurtful people for our benefit if the first place we must start. Only then can God do his work in us so that we may be able to love those folks as God loves them.

   This is one of the themes that I am still processing from my recent reading of Young’s “The Shack.”

10. john page on February 22nd, 2008 7:23 am

    Can we love a hypocrite? I suppose we have to as we are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves…and who hasn’t been hypocritical at some point?
    Can hurting people help hurting people, or can only healthy people help hurting people?

11. Matt Stone on February 22nd, 2008 9:25 am

    I think the image of wounded healer bears some relevance here. Comes up for both Jung and Nouwen. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_healer for a brief introduction.

12. Penney Winiarski on February 22nd, 2008 11:32 pm

    Matt, your link really made sense, especially in regards to not only Phelps, but in regards to KJ’s quote. Those who are seeking the true physician, Jesus, are and can be lead down dangerous paths. They than infact, become not only contagious but also a danger to themselves and others.

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