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11 Responses to “the new friars”

1. Jon Talbert on October 8th, 2008 4:28 pm

   Alan, I agree. Bessenecker weaves these new missional orders with the ancient. Drawing parallels with Francis of Assisi, Brigid of Kildare, and many others who have set watermarks long before us. His chapter on “Poverty Sucks” is brilliant. New Friars is a must read for churches and leaders who truely want to capture the essence of caring for “the least of these.”

   Jon Talbert

2. gerhard, south africa on October 8th, 2008 10:51 pm

   Hi Alan

   I’m involved in a church for homeless, called Sea Wind. It changed my whole life and way I see ministry. It started off with a rich guy living in an Estate who wanted to drobve one of the drunk homeless guys out of the church. “Why are you always late and disrupting the services?” “Well” said Bernie “Because no christian walks away from me when the pastor enters the pulpit!”

   Since then Rich Man has started a small soup kitchen which have grown into a new ministry. It is an honest way of being church, but it is very hard work with no expectations at all. I am learning every day. But the greatest of all is that “they” have become my friends. Every Monday night we have a church service in the Dutch Reformed Church. It’s great. There is so much depth among the poor here. So many stories.

   Thanks anyway for the book!

3. Jamie Arpin-Ricci on October 9th, 2008 5:54 am

   Glad you found the book. Scott is speaking at our JDTS in December. We are excited to have him come.

   Peace,
   Jamie

4. Milton Oliver on October 9th, 2008 10:04 am

   I agree that Scott’s new work is a challenge and somewhat of a fresh take on mission to the poor using historical reference points - all good stuff. However, I do get a little concerned lately about the whole theme of incarnational mission being narrowed to mission to the poor - it is, of course, much broader than that. It’s almost as if this is being sold by the Christian book industry as the only thing that can possible by incarnational. I also have concerns that what poses as incarnational mission these days really isn’t. I am convinced after many years of doing incarnational mission through church plants to all kinds of groups that incarnationaly is a lot more than locating oneself within a particular community. It has to be about transformation and about a discipleship that leads to more and more wholeness. Yes, some are doing this and I praise God for that, of course - but many are wearing some kind of “incarnational” badge of honour when there is little of the kingdom power at work in what they do. This is not to decry some fantastic work being done - just raising the concern that there are a lot of people groups not in poverty who desperately need to experience Christ, too. One hsitorical reference point for that (and there are others) is the story of Zacchaeus. Jesus has one lunch with this wealthy and corrupt man - and he is changed in his whole world view. For what it’s worth …

5. Janet on October 9th, 2008 4:09 pm

   Good to hear your perspective Milton… there are certainly some people working with the poor who aren’t particularly fruitful (as well as those who are)… there are some people working with the middle class who aren’t particularly fruitful (as well as those who are)… there are some working in a cross-cultural context who aren’t particularly fruitful (as well as some who are).

   So underneath the important issue of appropriate communication (which is always somewhat incarnational) is spiritual authority, spiritual gifts, spiritual calling, prayerfulness, and the capacity to form communities of true disciples (a community which is always somewhat prophetic).

   Growing disciples who can rightly discern their sense of call (whether to the rich, the poor, the workplace, the missionfield, the church… wherever) is such an important challenge for us.

   (Great to see you yesterday too!!!!!)

6. Alan Hirsch on October 10th, 2008 12:00 am

   Molly, greta to have you visit. I miss you tons bro. Hope all is going well.

7. Darlene Enns-Dyck on October 10th, 2008 2:07 am

   Alan,

   I must say that ever since your web background changed, I hardly ever read this blog. I find it too difficult to read. Prior to that, I was a regular!
   Just thought I’d provide that feedback…don’t know if it’s significant for others…

   Darlene

8. Alan Hirsch on October 10th, 2008 9:43 am

   DArlene, just increase the font size if you find it hard. Under ‘view” in firefox.

9. Paul on October 10th, 2008 2:25 pm

   Alan, I’m with Darlene in regards to the background, and I respectfully disagree with your proposed “solution.” Why not just fade the background image out some so it’s not competing with your content? To expect your readers to fix this is, realistically, expecting too much. How many other “Darlenes” are there who visited once and never came back?

10. Lucy J on October 10th, 2008 2:50 pm

    Way to go, Milton and Janet! I so appreciate what you’ve both said. Andrew and I could be described as “multi-dimensional identities” (see recent thread on The Lessons of Social Networks) and what we are noticing in several of the clusters, an interest in incarnational mission (and especially work with the marginalised and disenfranchised) has sparked and is growing at a hitherto unprecedented rate. Just two examples: On the creative arts scene, there are several networks of people who are discovering how their giftings can be of value in mission to groups of a particular social class or ethnic grouping or those variously disadvantaged. A church group in a very affluent area of Sydney. They have been pondering on ways in which their substantially blessed pool of people skills and financial resources can be effectively used for missional purposes and were very keen to chat to us when we turned up unexpectedly at one of their evening church services and socialised around the post-service supper spread. (My daughter has just recently joined the congregation and we went along to support her because she is now on their singing team. She has an excellent voice and song-writing ability, by the way!). Discerning critique such as that from people like yourselves is very helpful - especially the importance and practical reality of transformation and discipleship, and the place of spiritual authority, spiritual gifts, spiritual calling, prayerfulness in terms of finding one’s niche in the love and service of God. If the newly interested folks get a sense of balance about it all from the beginning they are more likely to remain healthy in their exploration of this exciting dimension of the Christian life. Who knows, they might join an order to work with the poor, but even sometimes the rich are very poor in spirit and need to come into good relationship with the living Christ, as does everybody in between!

11. Matt Stone on October 11th, 2008 8:17 am

    I would say, “empty yourself of all that alienates you from a people” except for the good news of the lordship of Jesus. I think we need to accept that the good news is itself irrevocably alien to many, that we are strangers in this world because this news is strange, and that to forget that is to court syncretism rather than contextualization. But that being said, so much of what we do is unnessesarily strange and alienating, so yes, we must empty ourselves of the unnessesary stuff. But this is harder by far, because often we’re not even aware of where we’re being unnessessarily alien.

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