the big issue of the century

Now we know for sure that things are heating up…

Seriously, I must admit to becoming increasingly gloomy and to feeling unnaturally apocaplyptic about this upcoming century. I have always felt that it was going to be one unbelievably difficult one. When we throw in runaway technology (future shock), massive geo-political shifts, people mucking with the codes of life (genetics), all this combined with a degenerating moral compass with which to guide our actions makes for a pretty volatile and dangerous mix.

But to be honest, I think the biggest issues that we will face all relate to the environment. I remember reading David Suzuki back in the 80’s where he envisioned a world where water and food were so scarce that we would have what he called ‘the water wars’. (The degeneration of the world’s drinking water is one of the looming environmental crises that is seldom talked about) When people are fighting over water you have no basis for a civil society any longer. And even if we do not get to scrap over water, with global climate changes, I can foresee a time when whole economies are going to collapse. And in that scenario, I promise you that we will find lots of things to fight about. In the end environmental issues become social issues and because of this always must retain religious and ethical significance.

I think this will prove to be the biggest issue facing the human race in the 21st Century, and that includes us as a church. Sorry to be so depressing, but I think the church must wake up to this and prepare for what is coming. What do you think we should be doing?

March 5, 2007 | Filed Under environment, missional church |

Comments

61 Responses to “the big issue of the century”

Alan Hirsch on March 5th, 2007 2:27 pm

I thought that I’d begin my own discussion with a suggestion that we REPENT!!!
Chris on March 5th, 2007 3:09 pm

I know what you mean, and I completely agree, we need to repent and re-focus on one of the basic purposes of human kind - to take care of the earth.
Matt Wiebe on March 5th, 2007 3:55 pm

In a future where there will almost definitely be less, I suggest that we voluntarily begin to live with less, renouncing the twin gods of materialism and consumerism.

In a future where we can anticipate there being a collapse of economic systems, I suggest that we already start investing in local economies; in rebuilding the regional networks of economic interdependence that have been decimated by Wal-Mart and its clones.

In an age where there will be far more poor people than there are today (and we will likely be them), we need to commit ourselves now, more than ever, to the church’s mission of serving the poor.

And that’s just for starters.
brad on March 5th, 2007 5:18 pm

while we should certainly gear ourselves up with theology and praxis for what likely will come, we should not leave out culture and studies of the future/strategic foresight.

culturally, we may want to consider a range of post-apocalyptic media to spur some thinking. for example, Blade Runner and anything else from the mind of Philip K. Dick - who just happened to live in the same county where I am, Dune by Frank Herbert - who just happened to live in the same county also when the first book in the series was published, Waterworld, the TV series Jeremiah and the related Belgian graphic novel, The Postman, Eco-Topia, Fahrenheit 451 [not nec. 911], The Ecology of Fear: Los Angeles and the Imagination of Disaster. and then, there’s X-1999 and a host of others in anime format from Japan, where there was apparently no concept of an apocalypse until after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but now it is an ingrained part of their culture. etc. etc. and that doesn’t even cover the genetics stuff! these give us insights into the values, fears, and passions for preventing disaster that may be present in the cultural contexts wherein we live.

and it wouldn’t hurt to read/view some more constructive/utopian than dystopian stuff, whether post-apocalyptic or not. such as Dinotopia (idealized multicultural society).

many of these storylines constitute *plausible* scenarios of what could happen, based on extrapolation of long-term social trends that have been driving change. as my Christian futurist friend Cass always says, “We ought to be here to point people toward hope, and help them sort through considering the plausible and move toward the *preferable*.”

will it be Lord of the Flies, or will we fly to the Lord? issues of power (politics, economics, violence) will almost certainly become more prominent, and so then could be the redemptive counterpart of the “Power of the Powerless” (see Christopher De Vinck’s book by that title), signs and wonders, and the power of kindness, since it is the kindness of God that leads to repentance …

semi-apologies for another lengthy download, but i’m not likely to be blogging much this week, as i have writing/editing for others that must fill the word buffers of my brain for a while. but i will read with interest what others are commenting and ponder thereon …
James Petticrew on March 5th, 2007 7:08 pm

Alan I don’t think a water shortage is ever going to be a problem here in Scotland
I do think we need to repent in the biblical sense of the word and have a change of mind about how seriously we view this looming crisis, I wonder if the mass people movements we are witnessing right now are just a taste of what is lying ahead unless we get committed to this.
You will face an uphill struggle in the States trying to convince the average American of the reality of the problem, most that I spoke to were like smokers unwilling to accept the evidence that smoking causes cancer.
Christina on March 5th, 2007 9:01 pm

I agree with the tackling of the gods of consumerism and materialism - both fuel the overconsumption of resources that deplete what we have and exploit those who do not. Environmentalism is still unfortunately a dirty word amongst right wing Christians, who assert that it is a cunning decoy to take us away from winning souls. Part of the solution (aside from a rediscovery of the theological basis for stewardship) is to not be so compartmentalized. We now understand that it is hard for people to hear the gospel above the rumbling of their bellies - social justice and the good news of Jesus go hand in hand. Environmental exploitation is maintained by materialism and more often than not, goes hand in hand with the exploitation of people, either causally, or as a consequence.

As for Dune’s sad picture of a future humanity - (interesting thought there Brad) - some time on our knees is in order. Hmmm, I wonder which country would become the house of Harkonnen….
Matt Stone on March 5th, 2007 10:10 pm

Hey if the collapse does happen these blogs are gonna get redundant real quick!

Are people aware of the distinction between dark green and bright green environmentalism? For the record I’m more of a bright green guy. It would be interesting to see where others stand on the spectrum - given us bloggers are presumably all technophiles.

I think we need to explore the geopolitical side of things too. Personal discipline will only get us so far when industry is the biggest waster. I think the very foundations of the corporate order need to be examined critically. Including the legal foundation which makes which makes genuine corporate altruism illegal.
bob roberts on March 6th, 2007 2:51 am

Alan, as someone who follows your blog closely - I really believe this is your best yet!!! A picture really is worth a thousand words!!!
Robin Dugall on March 6th, 2007 3:10 am

First of all, I can’t get that picture out of my mind…I’m holding you personally responsible for that! Now, in addition to turning my eyes away from the television when a victoria’s secret commercial hits the screen, I have to ask my wife to “monitor” Alan’s blog! What is up with that?

On the serious side, I am apt to agree with you…the environment issues are much more “personal” and impactful than even the numerous war issues that face the planet. Any student of history could tell numerous stories of atrocities that humanity had to endure all the the name of war, conquest, nationalism, and imperialism. In fact, we may a bit more “humane” than past centuries. The issue of the explosion of population and how corporations and greed run the gambit of control of our resources could be the most prevailing “gathering storm”. Alan, keep up the good blogs…and don’t let me have to lecture you on your choice of pictures again! Ha!
len on March 6th, 2007 3:54 am

One of the issues we face is lack of concensus in the church itself as to the severity of the problem, and the source of responsibility. There are still the naysayers out there, and while some of them share the agenda of Empire, others genuinely doubt the rising concensus. Interesting how that seed of doubt can paralyze decision making.. Then of course there are the theologies of privilege and the theologies of escape (Mr LaHaye)..
seeingkalos on March 6th, 2007 4:40 am

Hilarious picture, Alan - But, I am not sure lack of water will be the ultimate catalyst to stir our “civil” societies into a frenzy - this comment reminds me of the 5 o-clock news segments seen from time to time when the interviewer asks someone at the local petro station what they think of the current economic outlook - the reply often seen “I think it is all going to hell in a hand basket with these outrageous pump prices” - all the while she/he is guzzling down a 16oz bottle of water they probably paid $1.50 for!

BTW - the Texas Baptist Men Disaster Relief Ministry - a complete volunteer ministry at this point already incorporate technology to turn sea water into drinking water - some serious kalos.

While water is still the drink of death to many on the globe - God in his mercy has provided rain on the just and unjust - for thousands of years. Further, I am not certain humans have a broad enough grasp of environmental issues to make sweeping forcastes of a week ahead or much less, a hundred years ahead - Greenland used to be green with vineyards!

Are things really warming up?
David on March 6th, 2007 5:00 am

Quick solution to water sortage:
Drink more vodka!

On a more serious note, I agree. I’m doing a three week series on the environment in April around Earth Day. The problem is trying to put together the heart of God on this in only three weeks; which will include teaching, planning, discussion, and actually doing something about it.
I’m glad we are growing in knowledge about this, but I still find the West, and in particular the Western Church, and even more specifially the American Western Church woefully ignorant.
Cameron on March 6th, 2007 6:01 am

If nothing else, this is an interesting time to be alive. I think we’ll get to see a time of dramatic change on so many fronts in our life times. (and hopefully one of those changes is within the church.)

To me, I’ve noticed externally (I can’t read people’s hearts) that to many within the church, one action one time counts as repentance. ie, buying lunch once for a homeless person gives you rights to say you care about the poor. Even once we recognize the sad shape of the environment, I’m scared that we will consider a sermon enough, or the recognition of the problem enough. Serious, impact making life-style changes really require the conviction of the Spirit . . . and that should require us to pray for that. And we need to change too, of course.

One idea, what about carpooling or taking the bus? Excellent way to reduce emissions and meet people. Perhaps even start a mini eco-friendly church on wheels!
simon on March 6th, 2007 11:27 am

Love the pic!
RePete on March 6th, 2007 11:32 am

I must admit I was a little shocked to learn that even if Australia was to go off line and cease all greenhouse emissions tommorow that at the current rate of industrial growth in china they would have replaced our entire amount of emissions in 5 months

Kinda leaves you feeling like we have left it too late after all

I guess it demonstrates the consequences of a world that has largly governed itself without considering the principles and precepts of the creator

“Welcome to the machine”
RePete on March 6th, 2007 11:35 am

p.s

I was contemplating on the way to work this morning

Will the rapid growth of the church in china result in a more envirionmentaly aware county or will they embrace the comforts that materialism provide like we have in the west

Just a thought
Alan Hirsch on March 6th, 2007 11:40 am

RePete, I do worry that an overly spiritual view of the world tends to diminish the value of the concrete and the physical. Actually this is just plain dualism and it is plain wrong, but it does tend to link with many expressions of Christinaity. Particularly in the West.

It is depressing how Christianity as a whole has been so slow on the uptake of green issues.
alan hirsch on March 6th, 2007 2:29 pm

Robin, those are guys undies!! That should clear your brain out.
Peggy on March 6th, 2007 2:30 pm

Well…seems here’s one more issue on which Christianity, as a whole, has been slow to embrace! Compartmentalizm strikes again….

I’m re-reading “Back To Jerusalem”, now that I’m finished with TFW, to burn the image of total dependance on the Holy Spirit into my mind and heart. I recommend it as a good read to jumpstart overall repentance! (And RePete, the Chinese are as vulnerable to the twin evils of ease and comfort as any human, if they get the opportunity–as Mike Frost already found out! Pray for them while you’re praying for the rest of us!)
Neal on March 6th, 2007 4:58 pm

May be out of place in this conversation but I recently read about the extinction of a species of dolphin specific to China - it didn’t even mention a blip on the news here in Australia.

Check out National Geographic for the full article.

Here is one more of God’s creatures we were called to enjoy and it seems in the race for the dollar and the ensuing industrialisation that follows it has now gone.
Matt Stone on March 7th, 2007 2:04 am

Hmmmm

I would like to bring Len’s comment about Tim LaHaye into the foreground.

You see, while Mr LaHaye’s left behind elicits nothing more than scathing scatological satire from me on most occasions …

See
http://mattstone.blogs.com/journeysinbetween/2006/08/warning_signs_o.html
http://mattstone.blogs.com/journeysinbetween/2006/05/escatology.html

… behind his left behind is some serious crap we must come to grips with. Him and his ilk are one of the main obstacles to serious evangelical engagement with environmental issues. Dispensationalism fosters a gnosticized indifference for the future of the earth. It is incumbent upon the emerging church to articulate an alternative, more holistic, eschatology. That means coming to grips with the Book of Revelation, with its context, symbology and forgotten message of global hope. We need to recover the book as our own and not leave it to these corrosive agents of eco-indifference.
Bob Roberts on March 7th, 2007 5:06 am

Guy undies - uh huh - now only a guy living down under with long hair would come up with something like that!
seeingkalos on March 7th, 2007 11:49 am

Interesting how brothers in speaking for further embracement of the preservation of the globe will so easily belittle a brother and image-bearer of God simply because he differs in theology and how one incorporates it into art…hmmm… Starting to sound like a seminary or the rest of the world in hear again!
brad on March 7th, 2007 11:52 am

so, you’re saying there’s little support for the art?
Peggy Brown on March 7th, 2007 1:21 pm

Wow…sounds like some folks needs to take a deep breath! This would not be the first time that subtle humor has not translated well in these conversations…probably will not be the last time, either.

Hey, all you “land down under” folk (am I wrong in thinking that this is a name you Aussies came up with?)—have a GREAT TIME over the weekend at Dangerous Stories II! (Sorry things didn’t line up for you to attend, Matt. Be blessed any way!)
Alan Hirsch on March 7th, 2007 3:00 pm

Thanks Peggy. I have been really busy preparing and so have only been able to follow, not really participate much in this blog. Sorry guys.
Jim Robertson on March 7th, 2007 4:47 pm

At first I thought it was too funny. Then ironic, while at the same time outrageous. With more thought - I now see it as tragic. Within minutes of each other, I open this post of Alan’s, and an article in Christianity Today online stating that:

“More than two dozen evangelical leaders are seeking the ouster of the Rev. Richard Cizik from the National Association of Evangelicals because of his “relentless campaign” against global warming.”

I encourage a read of the article, and the accompanying letter. And not because I agree with the letter. I think Alan has a very significant point, and may even be speaking prophetically in stating that “… to be honest, I think the biggest issues that we will face all relate to the environment.” Contrast this to the assertion of “the ousters” that “… we have observed Cizik and others are using the global warming controversy to shift the emphasis away from the great moral issues of our time, notably the sanctity of human life, the integrity of marriage and the teaching of sexual abstinence and morality to our children.” Interesting dividing point – global community issues versus individualistic ones.

2nd interesting dividing point – how the “ousters” seek the outing through what I would call political interference – none of those demanding the change are members of the National Association of Evangelicals, and apparently choose not to be members and participate democratically in the organization, yet purport to be concerned for its welfare - this being done through a process combining their positions of influence and making public the letter to the Board of the organization. An interesting contrast to how the post-modern world networks.

There is so much more to say, but time constrains me.

Thank you Alan. Links below.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/marchweb-only/109-53.0.html

http://www.citizenlink.org/pdfs/NAELetterFinal.pdf
Janet on March 7th, 2007 4:53 pm

Well, since my self-appointed role is to play devil’s advocate from time to time, here goes.

Since the 18th century there have been prophets of doom predicting global catastrophe… running out of food, running out of water, mass starvation leading to the breakdown of society, etc. etc.

Human ingenuity being what it is, we actually have always kept steps ahead of the looming catastrophe… improved irrigation, improved storage of food, then synthetic fertilizers, mechanisation of agriculture, insecticides, rodent control, improved crop yields… now genetic engineering of crops… as well as finding alternative sources of energy (new technology to extract more oil, nuclear power, green power, etc. etc.)

I don’t believe the capacity of the earth to absorb human populations is limitless, but we still have more of an issue with equity than we do with scarcity… there’s more than enough food for everyone.

Now I oppose conspicuous consumption in a world where many are destitute, and I oppose materialism as a pathway of emptiness and despair… but I’m not (yet) convinced that global warming means global catastrophe, or that technologies being developed to purify / recycle waste water (even sea water), or technologies being developed for food production will fail us. It’s more an issue of will… do we give a damn about justice and the poor?

I do think that we should take environmental issues very, very seriously… but we should take equity issues even more seriously.
Alan Hirsch on March 7th, 2007 5:36 pm

Jim, this is appalling! I honestly feel like weeping when I read things like this. I simply cannot understand why people would do this. I am going to write a letter!
Alan Hirsch on March 7th, 2007 5:53 pm

And Janet, for once I have to disagree with you my gorgeous, optimistically inclined, friend.

What you are suggesting is exactly the kind of argument that lets us off the hook at the time when we need to be serious about these things. Let’s play a version of Pascal’s wager on this: The problem is that if you are wrong (and evidence is beginning to seriously pile up) then by the time we wake up from our collective slumbers, and correct our behaviors and attitudes, it will be too late. And as far as justice is concerned, the poor are going to cop it a whole lot more than the rich. The term ‘canaries in the mine’ is approriate here. They will die in droves!!

However, if I (or the other greenie alarmists) are wrong here, all we will have done is correct some seriously bad attitudes towards the use of God’s good creation and we will have become more faithful stewards in the process.

Even though the wager/bet in your option is low, the ’stakes’ in your bet is wayyyy too high. If I am wrong, then what is lost. If however, you are wrong, we stand to lose a viable civil living-space/environment.

No, I am sure that now is the time for action. We cannot wait for 15 years to see what the outcome might be.
Jim Robertson on March 7th, 2007 6:33 pm

Perhaps two letters are in order. I will do the other. I am sure that Rev. Cizik needs our prayers and could use some encouragement. He occupies what would feel like a lonely place.
Janet on March 7th, 2007 8:02 pm

What do you mean “for once”!!!!

Actually Al, I completely agree with you… the stakes are way too high for complacency… and I actually argued this pretty strongly on Signposts recently. But I couldn’t resist playing devil’s advocate!

It is certainly irresponsible to make an impossible mess in the yet-to-be realised hope someone will work out a way to clean it up.

As for the Rev. Richard Cizik… I find it really, really sad that those who claim to follow the God of all creation, the Almighty, the great I AM… can only muster up interest in personal morality (although they appear to want to legislate this.)

No wonder people say “Jesus yes, the church, no”. I just don’t like Christians sometimes. At least, the ones that sound more like the Pharisees than they sound like Jesus. Uggh.
Peggy Brown on March 7th, 2007 8:23 pm

The real issue is coming to grips with the cost of paying the piper concerning the true impact of Industrialization. Much that is good and much that is evil have been developed in the name of progress. We must finally deal with our idolatry.

“Global warming” is just the current lightning rod. Science doesn’t really know, at this time, whether it’s a cyclical thing or an emissions thing — I’d say it’s likely some of both.

But a number of scenes from Lord of the Rings (books and movies) come to mind:

–The Wise (Elrond, Galadriel & Gandalf) realize that if the One is regained by Sauron, the power of the Three Rings is undone and all they have wrought with them will be lost. They decide it is better to take the chance and suffer the loss in order to rid Middle Earth of this great evil.

–Sauruman, rather than receive mercy and redemption after his treachery is discovered and thwarted, spends the rest of his energy destroying The Shire to spite Gandalf and the Hobbits: if he can’t have what he wants, no one can have anything!

–Faramir, in submission to the King, restores the Stewardship to it’s former place of honor and service and receive great reward from the King for his efforts in the destruction of the Ring, even when it meant defying his father.

–Denethor, in a fog of Sauron-deceived pride and hopelessness, refuses to submit to the rightful King and he chooses death rather than duty.

–The Hobbits, returning to an occupied and destroyed Shire, stir their countrymen to throw off their oppressors and restore justice and rebuild their community equitably — using Galadriel’s precious gifts wisely.

It is a very costly thing, restoring humanity’s tarnished Stewardship. We will all have to pay the price in our own lives, not just the big bad corporations. Are we willing to do the hard work necessary to follow the truth to the very end and think through the complicated implications and options and then do what is just, merciful and humble before God?

May God grant us grace and wisdom and a huge dose of humility and willingness to sacrifice our own security and comfort, not just someone else’s, for lives of faith and obedience. In our weakness, God can show his strength…we certainly cannot get out of this mess without him!
Janet on March 7th, 2007 8:26 pm

Actually, I completely agree with you Al… the stakes are way too high for complacency. It’s irresonsible in the extreme to make an impossible mess in the hope someone somehow will find a way to clean it up. I just couldn’t resist the chance to play devil’s advocate!

As for the Rev. Richard Cizik… I find it really sad that those who claim to follow the Almighty Creator of Heaven and earth can only manage to muster interest in personal sexual morality and abortion, and regard it as an ostracisable offence that someone advocates for care of God’s earth. I don’t like Christians sometimes… not the ones that sound more like the Pharisees than like Jesus. No wonder so many react “Jesus yes, the church, no”.
seeingkalos on March 8th, 2007 1:34 am

Dude you guys need to get a grip on the scare tacticts. If the earth is 10-12k years old or a billion or so - how can a 100 years of industrialization begin to discern its climatic influence? What do we know - in 1000 AD Greenland had vineyards, now it is too cold!

I am not suggesting the continuation of neglecting the marvelously crafted sphere from God - It is ours to reign over as God would - yet many in the global crusade are advancing sweeping.

In terms of morality in America - and nearly all of us on this blog would say “we follow Jesus” -
why would Jesus uphold his expectation of morality in his culture by telling the man he heal to stop sinning (see John 5 ), adulterous woman to stop sinning (see John 8 ), Jesus sent Jonah and Nahum to Gentile Ninevah. Oh yes, Sodom & Gomarrah - who were not of the covenant of Abraham/Lot and this is before the Law of Moses too - yet God has demonstrated an expectation of a standard of morality for pagan or covenant people and has demonstrated wrath for defiance & mercy for those who change.

Furthermore, in a represenatative republic like America - policy changes through public debate - Dobson, et. al know this well - though I don’t agree with everything anyone says and does - I don’t have the option who I pick and chose to love in Christ. As a consumer, though its all about me and my positions and I like those who are expedient for me, pagan or brother - Hmmmm.
Janet on March 8th, 2007 7:53 am

Ugg… excuse my posting twice… I didn’t think it worked the first time!
Peggy Brown on March 8th, 2007 8:53 am

Ah, Janet…it’s nice to know I am not alone! The posting gremlin got me on an earlier thread, as well!
Jen Waddell (nee.Reed) on March 8th, 2007 12:10 pm

I love the picture, but I must say, as the years go by, my undies are getting larger

On a practical note: How about churches and Christian homes and facilities:
a) install water tanks
b) use energy saver light globes
c) fix leaking taps
d) install grey-water filters and pipes for use in flushing toilets and watering gardens
e) turn off photocopiers, computers, lights, etc. when they are not needed
f) preach these practical measures
g) have tree-planting and Clean-up Australia day type outings
h) get our electricity from Green companies
i) get “neutral” by paying for iniatives that counterbalance the emissions and waste we make
j) drive hybrid or feul-efficient cars
k) use public transport, or better still ride a bike or walk
l) reuse bags, especially green, cloth or paper bags
m) use Tupperware instead of clingwrap

Just a thought
Alan Hirsch on March 8th, 2007 12:25 pm

And good thoughts they are Jen. I try do much of these. But what a witness it would be if the church as a whole started doing these things.
Jen Waddell (nee.Reed) on March 8th, 2007 12:37 pm

We (church as a whole) certainly need be that example!! I think it is definately the time to be talking about it in church… to be running on the hype of the movie/book success of “An Inconvenient Truth” and the media spotlights like “Cool Aid” and “Lights Off Australia”, etc.

We should make as much (or more) noise in church as some people make about Harry Potter, etc.

Jen
Peggy on March 8th, 2007 3:21 pm

Yes, we must all own the problem, collectively, and we must all be part of the solution or we will continue to be part of the problem.

Could it be that the church just might wake up and take the lead on one social issue????

I have heard many voices speaking in this direction. But more talk/noise just won’t do–talk is cheap, after all. We must all embrace leading this way by example. This group has a significant voice and leadership presence…and I am grateful.

We’ve been celebrating the birthday (March 2) of Dr. Seuss here in America…perhaps we all need to re-read his classic “The Lorax” one more time, and not just to our children!
Alan Hirsch on March 8th, 2007 3:55 pm

Peggy, not while us evangelicals are ousting the greenies for their activism on behalf of creation!
Janet on March 8th, 2007 5:26 pm

It’s ironic when the green movement has some deep theological roots (ie Quaker theology was very significant in the early formation of Greenpeace… World Council of Churches has been discussing papers on the environment for ages) that some evangelicals are now opposing this emphasis as if we are “tainted by the world”.

Still shaking my head over it all.
Peggy on March 8th, 2007 6:22 pm

Well, Alan, “we” will just have stand up to “us” now, won’t we? Perhaps you write your letter and we’ll all sign our names? Or better yet, we’ll not just talk about it…we’ll get down and get our hands dirty.

One of the enemy’s favorite tricks is to divide and conquer, right? If we can get some part of an important idea or plan attached to something that is a little off — or downright wrong — we can call the whole thing “tainted” and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That means that we who would regain godly stewardship for the church must be very careful what we think and believe and say and do, so that we are wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.

“Greenies” who harm/destroy and are rude/obnoxious are doing no one any favors–except the enemy, that is. If we are going to do this well, we must do it God’s way, with grace and mercy and justice and humility… would that be yet another forgotten one?

Dr. James Dobson and his group do not speak for me…he probably still advocates vaccination….
Matt Stone on March 9th, 2007 1:05 am

Hey, the state elections are coming up.

Read this:
http://mcact.blogspot.com/2007/03/fred-nile-christian-democratic-party.html

Then consider leaving the Christian Democrats a message or two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r0RnR9o6OU
Peggy on March 9th, 2007 8:49 am

Hey, seeingkalos, your comment (#35 above) was stranded in blog-time-warp somewhere and just arrived…thanks for the perspective!

Has anyone counted the number of comments that contain the thoughtful “hmmm…” I believe that is a very good sign

And, by the way, my comment in #44 was not meant to suggest that all “greenies” are harmful/rude…so don’t anybody shoot me over that one! Whew…that was close….
Janet on March 9th, 2007 6:00 pm

Dr. James Dobson and his group do not speak for me…he probably still advocates vaccination….

He probably still advocates hitting children…. there are so many better ways to discipline.

Getting off the track!!!
Peggy on March 10th, 2007 3:14 am

Maybe it’s not as far off the track as you might think, Janet.

Isn’t this blog precisely about examining context for proper orthopraxy as well as orthodoxy? Is this “lack of leadership regarding stewardship” issue another manifestation of the “institutional church” mindset…and those who are trying to “marry” religion and politics more signs of the “Patrix” program we’ve talked about in other threads? For many Christians is America, there is an undercurrent of “…you really cannot legislate morality, brothers and sisters.”

True leadership is about leading by example…as I’ve heard said so many times here. The genius of Alan’s “rediscovery” in TFW is that he’s calling for the return of balanced leadership. And I believe that balanced leadership will give voice to all the issues at hand…which will include true stewardship as well as true discipline (and not just for children, either).

Hmmm…

Hmmm….
Jim Robertson on March 13th, 2007 5:33 am

Alan & Scot: There is a lively debate on the actions of “the ousters” and environmental concerns on each other’s sites. Alan’s focus is more on the importance of environmental concerns for the church, Scott’s more so on the actions of “the ousters”, but lots of cross-over.

Scot McNight: http://www.jesuscreed.org/

Alan Hirsch: http://www.theforgottenways.org/blog/

Alan’s posting had come out almost concurrently with the C.T. article.

For Scot’s readers - here is link directly to the letter:

http://www.citizenlink.org/pdfs/NAELetterFinal.pdf

A note for all of us - Dobson is only one of several signatories to the letter, yet he is drawing nearly all the comments. On one hand we should be cautious about making him the whipping boy (or the spokesperson) for the group; on the other hand, it may simply be an indication of the extent of his name recognition and political / religious influence. And on the third hand, his own org. has not shied away from highlighting his role in the letter, so maybe he is getting the attention he sought. Hmmmm.

http://www.citizenlink.org/clspecialalert/A000004040.cfm

Jim R.
Peggy on March 13th, 2007 10:37 am

Thanks, Jim, for this. I enjoyed (not really the proper word…was interested may be better) reading their comments and your citizenlink documents.
Peggy on March 13th, 2007 10:38 am

And your “Hmmmm” added another one to the list
Barry A on March 15th, 2007 5:16 pm

Just flicking through the blog today for the first time - I lament the church’s total abdication of this issue - watched the “inconvenient Truth” for the first time last week - compelling viewing. When will the church wake up to this - stewardship of the planet. I’m still trying to figure out what the theological implications are - how does all this fit with the eschatological stuff? Talking to my kids - and now grand kids - they are worried…
Mark on March 16th, 2007 2:10 am

To me it is obvious that the care of creation is a “no brainer” for the church. After all, “the earth is the Lord’s and all it’s fullness…” and the creation communicates the truth of his existence and power and majesty and beauty.

A popular Christian worship song says, “Lord of all creation, of water earth and sky, the heavens are your tabernacle, glory to the Lord on high…” If we really believe these things, then isn’t a “reasonable act of worship” to care for his amazingly beautiful tabernacle.

It should certainly a “no brainer” but for the reality that, unfortunately, the evangelical church has largely sold it’s soul to the “conservative” agenda which tends to be so pro-industry that the creation must take a back seat.

Interesting though… you’d think that “conservatives” would be interested in “conservation”… but I guess not. Why is that?
Peggy on March 16th, 2007 3:06 am

Ah…semantics strikes again.

I’ve been re-reading a little book, written 30 years ago by Vernard Eller, called “Cleaning up the Christian Vocabulary: words that cofuse and divide.” I find that I must go back to this little book anually…because one of the areas that is most difficult for me is keeping everyone’s definitions straight. If I assume that my definitions are the same as everyone else’s, I find myself in trouble sooner or later.

This seems to be one of the areas of “cultural distance” we talked about on another thread, but it is not addressed nearly enough, in my experience.

One of the things that I most appreciated, Alan, is the glossary you put in TFW…to deal with this very issue. People’s definitions are usually different…sometimes in subtle ways…from those whose context is different. And one of the problems we are facing today is the speed at which these definitions are changing.

It is almost impossible to have a conversation on any subject, much less about God, without first coming to an understanding concerning terms. Certainly this topic could use some contemplation of terms in order to sort through the confusion.

The question, though, is whether we are really willing to spend the time honestly understanding each other?

Are we sometimes reckless reactionaries rather than holy rebels? Perhaps we should define those terms….

Hmmm….
sushil_yadav on March 17th, 2007 3:17 am

In response to your post on environmental crisis:

The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.

When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.

A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.

Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct.

Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits.

A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy.

A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself.

To read the complete article please follow either of these links :

PlanetSave

TheHolisticWheel

sushil_yadav
Matt Stone on March 18th, 2007 11:01 pm

“When will the church wake up to this - stewardship of the planet. I’m still trying to figure out what the theological implications are - how does all this fit with the eschatological stuff?”

Depends which eschatological stuff you’re talking about. As I indicated earlier, an eschatology that sees the earth as something to be spat out and thrown away (ie left behind) ain’t gonna find to much common ground with an pro environment stance, but personally I don’t think such eschatologies have too much in common with a sound Biblical exegesis anyway.

Why not begin to re-evaluate this by reading Romans 8 ?

18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[i] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

Matt
Matt Stone on March 18th, 2007 11:31 pm

I think it’s important to ask ourselves, how green is God? What does scripture suggest? Did he not call the earth and the plants and the animals good? Did he not say the land should share in the sabbath rest? Did he not prophecy this in Isaiah:

“Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind … I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more … the wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, says the LORD.”

Just as the living and the dead will be caught up in the resurrection climax, so shall the animals and the earth itself. The forces of death shall not have the last word, the Lord of life shall rule. The earth shall not be ‘left behind’ by God.

I think it is instructive to consider the story of an early environmental catastrophe, one which we find in Genesis. Consider Noah. Did God instructions to him cover his personal salvation only? Did God’s instructions to him cover the salvation of useful domestic animals only? Did God’s instructions extend to saving all species of this earth, irrespective of their usefulness to Adam? As I said back in January on http://mattstone.blogs.com don’t you find it ironic “that the green movement has embraced the symbols from Noah story with a lot more gusto than Christians in recent decades. Do you find it curious that the dove and the rainbow spoken of in Genesis chapter 8 and 9 grace the bow of the [Greenpeace] Rainbow Warrior at the same time many Christians are dismissive of environmental activism as somewhat pagan?” Think about it.
Peggy on March 19th, 2007 4:05 am

Sushil…very thought-provoking insights…I will ponder deeply and try read the articles.
Peggy on March 19th, 2007 9:14 am

Matt, did you read the linked the article (it is quite long) from #55? Just wondered what your take was. I found many points that resonated with me.

I also felt that some of it sounded quite extreme…and would say that it is precisely because of what we’re talking about on the most recent thread — identity confusion and resultant loss of true missional impulse. When you take God out of the picture, you get much of what Sushil describes. But we know that God has not abdicated or abandoned us.

I know you’re both busy, but I would be very interested in comments from CELTIC SON and BRAD here….
Janet on April 3rd, 2007 1:29 pm

I saw a near-definition of irony the other day.

A hulking great 4 wheel drive vehicle with a “Time to Act on Climate Change is NOW” sticker.

What’s that about?
Peggy on April 3rd, 2007 2:20 pm

Hmmm….DENIAL! Or, a remnant from a previous owner